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Thread: Netflix - Making a Murderer

  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dooz View Post
    I'm not sure how I feel about Steven Avery, but the Brendan Dassey portion makes me ****ing irate, sad, disappointed, confused, etc.
    I'm only a couple of episodes in, but lost all sympathy for Avery at the very beginning when he ran the girl off the road and pulled a gun on her. That said, the way the first case was allowed to play is unsettling.

  2. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unimane View Post
    Shit, how do you think I paid for grad school? They pay well for planting evidence in Wisconsin. They just gave me a set of keys and said to put them somewhere in the trailer.

    The funny thing is how many places I know are in the video and the accents. I have so many family and people I know that talk exactly the way the Averys do.
    When they referenced Whiteville TN in first episode I was caught off guard. I know exactly where that is.
    Cursed Ebola stricken zombies - this is Tennessee football.

  3. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by utvol0427 View Post
    I'm only a couple of episodes in, but lost all sympathy for Avery at the very beginning when he ran the girl off the road and pulled a gun on her. That said, the way the first case was allowed to play is unsettling.
    His past certainly didn't do him any favors.

  4. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by CardinalVol View Post
    Two episodes in.

    I see a binge watching weekend ahead of us.
    I did a binge last weekend. Addicting.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by volfanjo View Post
    Really great doc. I recommended people also examine the DA's response to the film. Adds important context the directors' cut out, even for those of us sympathetic to Avery and Dassey.
    1. The DA's response is incredibly off the mark. The other lines of evidence are irrelevant when evidence is being tampered with or planted, and what someone said in jail 10 years prior doesn't move my needle very much. I would say he is missing the heart of the issue with this case, which brings me to

    2. It isn't about being sympathetic towards Avery, or even claiming we *know* he's innocent. He could very well be guilty, he's obviously not someone I'd want my loved ones to be around. The point is that the justice system completely broke down and forced a conviction through. The system utterly failed, and did so twice for this person. Guilty of the murder or not. This is even more egregious with the Massey kid, because any reasonable person can see that he's just a borderline retarded minor who was manipulated into a confession that doesn't even fit the facts just to help with the Avery case. THAT is the issue.

    3. There have been no consequences for a sherriff's department and state justice department that completely failed at their job when they KNEW this was going to be sensitive case.

    4. The judge involved was seemingly incompetent, given he refused to give Massey another lawyer, refused to move the trial(s) out of the county that had falsely convicted Avery earlier, allowed evidence that clearly was planted (the key only having Avery's DNA but nothing else, not even the owner's fingerprints or DNA? C'mon.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tmac61 View Post
    I tried. I will continue to embarrass you in front of your friends.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by volfanjo View Post
    Really great doc. I recommended people also examine the DA's response to the film. Adds important context the directors' cut out, even for those of us sympathetic to Avery and Dassey.
    1. The DA's response is incredibly off the mark. The other lines of evidence are irrelevant when evidence is being tampered with or planted, and what someone said in jail 10 years prior doesn't move my needle very much. I would say he is missing the heart of the issue with this case, which brings me to

    2. It isn't about being sympathetic towards Avery, or even claiming we *know* he's innocent. He could very well be guilty, he's obviously not someone I'd want my loved ones to be around. The point is that the justice system completely broke down and forced a conviction through. The system utterly failed, and did so twice for this person. Guilty of the murder or not. This is even more egregious with the Massey kid, because any reasonable person can see that he's just a borderline retarded minor who was manipulated into a confession that doesn't even fit the facts just to help with the Avery case. THAT is the issue.

    3. There have been no consequences for a sherriff's department and state justice department that completely failed at their job when they KNEW this was going to be sensitive case.

    4. The judge involved was seemingly incompetent, given he refused to give Massey another lawyer, refused to move the trial(s) out of the county that had falsely convicted Avery earlier, allowed evidence that clearly was planted (the key only having Avery's DNA but nothing else, not even the owner's fingerprints or DNA? C'mon.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tmac61 View Post
    I tried. I will continue to embarrass you in front of your friends.

  7. #32
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    What bothers me as much as anything is the total lack of investigation of other potential suspects, such as the ex-boyfriend, roommate, other Avery family members, etc. Hell, the prosecution didn't even try to verify if those two bones found in the fire pit in the quarry were actually the victim's. Seems like that would be an important thing to do if you are trying to get to the truth of the matter but instead they left it open because if it was the victim's it would help Avery.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tmac61 View Post
    I tried. I will continue to embarrass you in front of your friends.

  8. #33

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    this len kachinsky cat should be disbarred.

  9. #34

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    I don't really understand your or Dooz's comments from what was essentially a throw away line to make sure people had read what the now disgraced DA said.

    In a 10-part, 10 hour documentary it is important to note that Avery specifically asked for Ms. Halbach to come to his home. Now there are some very innocent explanations for this, of course. He's worked with her before, or she is great at her job. But the whole time I'm thinking it's just a random person, with a random job. But he actually asked for her, by name. Why? Of course the documentary points out the many many problems with the SA, DA, and Sheriff's office. I assumed we were all on the same page with that, particularly Brendan Dassey's treatment.

    What we can critique the documentary for, if anything, is its cryptic treatment of Bobby Dassey, the boyfriend, and the ex-boyfriend. Boy they sure look guilty, right? Well maybe they are. Maybe one of them is, or two of them. But the troubling thing about advocacy journalism is that it does the EXACT same thing it critiques the prosecution for: vague accusations, ignoring evidence, "planting" ideas in the viewers' head. This happened on Serial and now is happening to many in the Avery case. We still don't know how Ms. Halbach was killed and where she was killed, but a bunch of people on the internet are darn sure this ex-boyfriend did it! Should we hold SA's and police to higher standard than internet posters? Absolutely. But what about documentarians? What is the standard for them?

    I am reminded of the Zimmerman trial when Spike Lee put Zimmerman's address on twitter. But it was the WRONG address, to a different man, who was needlessly harassed and parents terrified. I'm afraid our thirst to right injustice as viewers is creating a new problem, and one with troubling consequences.

  10. #35

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    I think Steven Avery is probably guilty but there wasn't enough to convict him.

    -The guy owns a junk yard with a car crusher but he just decided to park the victim's car out in the open?

    -No DNA in his room, nothing in the crack in his garage floor they dug up?? He should be a maid

    -Her DNA not on the key but his is? So, he took the time to scrub it just to sweat on it and place it in his room? Not to mention, they searched multiple times before the found it, yet it was easily seen on the floor???

    -Turned over to Calumet Co. yet Manitowoc County's finest, James Lenk and Andrew Colborn decided they needed to assist in the search anyway?




    Avery may be guilty, probably is but they planted a lot of evidence to get the conviction and don't get me started on Brandon Dassey. He should be freed immediately.

  11. #36

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    Also how did the majority of the jury flip?

  12. #37

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by volfanjo View Post
    I don't really understand your or Dooz's comments from what was essentially a throw away line to make sure people had read what the now disgraced DA said.

    In a 10-part, 10 hour documentary it is important to note that Avery specifically asked for Ms. Halbach to come to his home. Now there are some very innocent explanations for this, of course. He's worked with her before, or she is great at her job. But the whole time I'm thinking it's just a random person, with a random job. But he actually asked for her, by name. Why? Of course the documentary points out the many many problems with the SA, DA, and Sheriff's office. I assumed we were all on the same page with that, particularly Brendan Dassey's treatment.

    What we can critique the documentary for, if anything, is its cryptic treatment of Bobby Dassey, the boyfriend, and the ex-boyfriend. Boy they sure look guilty, right? Well maybe they are. Maybe one of them is, or two of them. But the troubling thing about advocacy journalism is that it does the EXACT same thing it critiques the prosecution for: vague accusations, ignoring evidence, "planting" ideas in the viewers' head. This happened on Serial and now is happening to many in the Avery case. We still don't know how Ms. Halbach was killed and where she was killed, but a bunch of people on the internet are darn sure this ex-boyfriend did it! Should we hold SA's and police to higher standard than internet posters? Absolutely. But what about documentarians? What is the standard for them?

    I am reminded of the Zimmerman trial when Spike Lee put Zimmerman's address on twitter. But it was the WRONG address, to a different man, who was needlessly harassed and parents terrified. I'm afraid our thirst to right injustice as viewers is creating a new problem, and one with troubling consequences.
    Please don't interpret my response as in any way barbed or argumentative with you. I'm just discussing, here. Reasonable minds can disagree.

    Let's take a dark explanation for Avery requesting Ms. Halbach: she's an attractive young woman who he enjoys lusting over. This would be in no way unusual. This is a reality that happens for young women who work, every day. It can be a coffee shop, a restaurant, an office, etc. It isn't really indicative of anything at all, and seems like a witch hunt to even include it given he had done so in the past as well.

    I disagree in regards to the treatment of others. The point is that there WASN'T EVEN AN INVESTIGATION into them. Even though they would normally be the first suspects that would need to be cleared. It isn't accusing ANYONE of guilt, it is pointing out that the investigation was never focused on truth but rather a conviction of a particular person. It isn't "planting" an idea because it is standard to investigate those closest to a murder victim first. You mention us not being sure how Halbach was killed or where, but there is a man sitting in jail because a jury was told she was killed in a particular way in a particular place.

    I see what you are saying about documentaries in general. A good example where I fall against one is Dinosaur 13. I happened to have briefly worked in the gov office involved with that case, and the documentary is 90 % fantasy in regards to how they portray the government and the case. It's an unfortunate circumstance for the people who paid to excavate fossils, but the facts are that the land they did so on was federal and thus the rights go to them. It was the public's fossils. I think it is contingent on the viewer to ALWAYS be evaluating the motives of a documentary. Perhaps there does need to be a statement of intent at the beginning of a documentary to make it clear what they are trying to document specifically, rather than it being represented as "the Truth."

    I don't think vigilantes and over zealousness is anything new, and it is never right. Spike Lee was wrong to do that, people getting personal in this case are wrong to do that. This is a problem humans have always had.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tmac61 View Post
    I tried. I will continue to embarrass you in front of your friends.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by A-Smith View Post
    The extra evidence has no oomph to me because we know they were tampering. Any testimony from Dassey is similarly irreversibly tainted. Even if it's all true, it's been tainted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tmac61 View Post
    I tried. I will continue to embarrass you in front of your friends.

  15. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by IP View Post
    The extra evidence has no oomph to me because we know they were tampering. Any testimony from Dassey is similarly irreversibly tainted. Even if it's all true, it's been tainted.
    The fact that he bought arm and leg shackles three weeks before and the kid describes her being shackled to the bed with chains independent of coaxing, because the cops didn't know about those details yet, is pretty convincing to me. Makes me think they're both in the right place.

  16. #41

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    Fourth episode, Brendan might be the dumbest person on earth.
    Cursed Ebola stricken zombies - this is Tennessee football.

  17. #42

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    9th episode.
    Fire them all.

  18. #43

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    How the heck can you be 16 years old and not know what inconsistent means, much less his 40ish year old mom?
    Cursed Ebola stricken zombies - this is Tennessee football.

  19. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by CardinalVol View Post
    How the heck can you be 16 years old and not know what inconsistent means, much less his 40ish year old mom?
    His IQ is very low. He's functionally pretty damn slow.
    Fire them all.

  20. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYYVol View Post
    His IQ is very low. He's functionally pretty damn slow.
    That was meant more for his mom.
    Cursed Ebola stricken zombies - this is Tennessee football.

  21. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by CardinalVol View Post
    That was meant more for his mom.
    She birthed him. You ain't mixing raw sewage and antifreeze and getting Deer Park water.
    Fire them all.

  22. #47

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    The whole family is not very educated. The conversations they would have over the phone where next level stupid.

  23. #48

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    "Hello"
    "Yeah?"
    "Yeah?"

  24. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dooz View Post
    The whole family is not very educated. The conversations they would have over the phone where next level stupid.
    I'm not sure they are smart enough to be educated. Steven seems like the smartest of the bunch and his IQ is 70.

    Although obviously someone has to have minimal sense to have that big of a scrap yard though.
    Cursed Ebola stricken zombies - this is Tennessee football.

  25. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unimane View Post
    "Hello"
    "Yeah?"
    "Yeah?"
    I picture you as chuck now.
    Cursed Ebola stricken zombies - this is Tennessee football.

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