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Thread: Prager: Single Payer Healthcare

  1. #226

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayVols View Post
    I try. Fail most of the time, but I think I get it right sometimes.
    my wife usually gets me to shut up.

  2. #227

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    Quote Originally Posted by droski View Post
    my wife usually gets me to shut up.
    Haha.

    I'd be better off if mine was more successful at shutting me up.
    Shut up and coach.

  3. #228

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayVols View Post
    Haha.

    I'd be better off if mine was more successful at shutting me up.
    I've had to unfollow a bunch of her friends on facebook because i'm worried i'm going to post something of the variety of "well that's the stupidest political opinion I've ever seen."

  4. #229

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    Quote Originally Posted by gcbvol View Post
    Great stuff, Jay. I admire your conviction and strength of character.
    Thank you.

    I'd probably classify it more as bull-headed stubbornness, but I believe what I believe & I believe it hard.


    What truly saddens me is the image of Christians from the outside is that they are a bunch of narrow-minded simpletons full of hate. That genuinely hurts me. I have been tasked with showing love to my fellow man. Like I said, I fail too much, but I try to do what has been asked of me as a Christian.

    This really hurts to admit, but I'm not sure I'd want to be a part of Christianity if what I've seen were what it's all about. Fortunately, I've been blessed with knowing many people I consider to be true ambassadors of Christ. All we can do is control what we each do and how we each treat others. Contrary to some of my actions here, I'll strive to be good to all I encounter. Or at least as good as each person will let me.
    Shut up and coach.

  5. #230

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    Quote Originally Posted by droski View Post
    I've had to unfollow a bunch of her friends on facebook because i'm worried i'm going to post something of the variety of "well that's the stupidest political opinion I've ever seen."
    Yeah. I can understand that & I know you mean that the views go beyond just a simple differentiation of how something is viewed.

    After 21 years of marriage & 10 off & on years of dating, I think the wife has just come to accept that I sm who I am. She still choses to love me, warts and all, which is pretty cool I think.
    Shut up and coach.

  6. #231

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayVols View Post
    Yeah. I can understand that & I know you mean that the views go beyond just a simple differentiation of how something is viewed.

    After 21 years of marriage & 10 off & on years of dating, I think the wife has just come to accept that I sm who I am. She still choses to love me, warts and all, which is pretty cool I think.
    my wife has gotten better with that, but i'm not sure she's quite reached that stage. ha ha

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by dc4utvols View Post
    14th under its narrow and original intent.
    And in what way does that not equally apply to gay people, but applies to someone of race x, y or z?

    Original intent allowed for discrimination by race, which is why there was a whole Brown case of some import maybe one of your friends has heard of.

    You can't claim discrimination by race is not a "persecution" while the other is;
    Do unto others before they do unto you

  8. #233

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayVols View Post
    I agree 100% with this.

    I also agree with what JudgementVol has said. The reason I left the Baptist church, well they actually left me, was because in a religion where Love was supposed to be the greatest aspect, all I saw was hate. And that hatred wasn't under the surface either. It was 100% in your face. So, I don't think JudgementVol could have picked a better analogy when describing too many Christians in today's world than saying they are modern day Pharisees more concerned about their image of holiness and bragging profusely about that rather than going out to spread what was commanded by Jesus, the message of peace, love and forgiveness. Being a Christian, I'm saddened to say that in many cases we have been our own worst enemy.


    I know this is a long post, but I feel moved to share the story of the last straw for me at my old church. Was in Sunday School class the Sunday following the Newtown, CT shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School. Naturally, the subject of such a horrific event was going to come up. I was prepared to raise the issue in relation to praying for those who had been impacted by the senseless violence, and perhaps even discuss ways, no matter how small, we could do something to help. Another person raised the topic before I could; however, they had a much different direction for the conversation than I did. So, I'm sitting there beside my wife whose father was the class teacher, and one man mentions the event in one breath. Ok. I expected it to be raised, but I was wholly unprepared and genuinely left seething by what came out of his mouth in his next breath. With a tone of utter contempt and hatred, he said, (and yes, this is a direct quote)"Obama will just use this as another excuse to take our guns!".........I sat there for a few seconds trying to come to terms with what was just said. During those few seconds, a few others added their comments along those lines, but I don't exactly remember what was said because the only focus I had was the volcano of anger and utter contempt welling up inside me just before it exploded. I slowly turned to my wife who was pale as a ghost while she frantically was shaking her head no to me. She knew exactly what was coming. I started to speak, but my wife interrupted me saying, "Please don't." I might not remember all everyone else said while this reality was sinking in with me, but I do 100% remember what I said and did, (Looking straight into the eyes of the person that opened his mouth first while answering my wife's futile pleas to not say anything)"No. I'm not going to keep my mouth shut on this one!" My voice was getting louder with each word. "Did you just say what I think you said?!?" Not giving him time to answer, I continued much to my wife's horror, "There are 20 dead CHILDREN and several dead adults here, and all you're concerned about immediately after it's happened is worring about govt coming to get your guns?!? Nothing about praying for the family but guns! That's quite possibly THE most disgusting thing I've ever heard in my life!" Turning to my wife who had an anguished look on her face, "No! That IS the most disgusting thing I've ever heard. This is a church & we're worried about our guns instead of the families? That's ridiculous! I'll never step foot inside this place ever again. I don't want any part of a "church" that thinks this way! None!" I got up and walked out & have honored my word. Only 2 people even called me to try to reach out to smooth this over, but that wasn't going to happen. There's lines you just don't cross with me, and that was ine of them.

    My wife felt exactly the same way. She just isn't big on direct confrontation. She went and got our daughters and we left right then and haven't been back. This wasn't the only political issue to come up during that time. I witnessed openly hostile, I'd even say hatre-filled, words spoken from the pulpit towards many people. I go to church to worship not listen to hate speeches. Soon after we left, my father in law, eho was chairman of the elders, left the church for the same reasons. This was tough on my wife & f-i-l. They had both grown up in this church, but to their credit, they chose Christian teachings over the draw of "home". It took us a couple of months of visiting, but we've found a new Methodist church where people are focused on Love instead of hate. My wife & I knew we were where we should be when our then female pastor ended her sermon with these words, "It doesn't matter what you look like. It doesn't matter what you smell like. It doesn't matter how much money you have. It doesn't matter how good or bad of a person you, or others, think you are. ALL people are welcome in the house of The Lord."


    I even let out a hearty, "AMEN!" after hearing that. Sorry for the novel. I just wanted to share that.
    I like the novels.

    When I heard of Sandy Hook the first thing that crossed my mind was the presents under the tree that would not be opened. The joy that would be replaced with unending grief. The devastated families.

    I will tell you something that might shock you. I dont attend any church and haven't in many years. My wife was raised Methodist and I find them too liturgical. The baptist churches here are too concerned with contemporary worship, building huge auditoriums, gymnasiums and coffee shops. I have felt there are better uses for that money that involve spreading the Gospel.

    I went to my father in laws Presbyterian church and it was sermon after sermon on class warfare and hating rich people.

    I grew up in a small church. Everyone knew everyone else. It was a loving and nurturing place. Most of the parishioners were as poor as dirt but they were the salt of the earth types. Even when I moved out of state and we attended a yuppie church it was nothing like the baptist churches of today.

    I like the study of prophecy and the hebraic roots of our faith. I am not a true hebraic roots follower, though, in that I dont do the feasts or consider keeping Torah mandatory. They are legalistic and I am not. But I dont swing way out the other direction in accepting sinful acts as acceptable behavior either.

    What you dont understand about me is that I dont hate anyone. I had the moniker "friend man" in college. I had gay friends in college and go on scouting camp outs with a lesbian. Can I not disapprove of gay marriage because I feel its bad for society? Can I not say anti-Sodomy laws are wrong but so is gay marriage? Can a man not put the rule of law about the rule of men?

    Can a man not believe Leviticus 22 and fear for his country without being accused of hating gays? Can a Christian baker serve gays for years knowing that they are gay and not decline to do their wedding as it is a bridge too far?

    The only real intolerance I see is that towards traditional Christian values.

    As for your brethren would it not have been the Biblical/Christian thing to have talked to him in private first about his callous behavior?

    Mathew 18:15 If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
    Baruch Haba B'shem Adonai​

  9. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by dc4utvols View Post
    I like the novels.

    When I heard of Sandy Hook the first thing that crossed my mind was the presents under the tree that would not be opened. The joy that would be replaced with unending grief. The devastated families.

    I will tell you something that might shock you. I dont attend any church and haven't in many years. My wife was raised Methodist and I find them too liturgical. The baptist churches here are too concerned with contemporary worship, building huge auditoriums, gymnasiums and coffee shops. I have felt there are better uses for that money that involve spreading the Gospel.

    I went to my father in laws Presbyterian church and it was sermon after sermon on class warfare and hating rich people.

    I grew up in a small church. Everyone knew everyone else. It was a loving and nurturing place. Most of the parishioners were as poor as dirt but they were the salt of the earth types. Even when I moved out of state and we attended a yuppie church it was nothing like the baptist churches of today.

    I like the study of prophecy and the hebraic roots of our faith. I am not a true hebraic roots follower, though, in that I dont do the feasts or consider keeping Torah mandatory. They are legalistic and I am not. But I dont swing way out the other direction in accepting sinful acts as acceptable behavior either.

    What you dont understand about me is that I dont hate anyone. I had the moniker "friend man" in college. I had gay friends in college and go on scouting camp outs with a lesbian. Can I not disapprove of gay marriage because I feel its bad for society? Can I not say anti-Sodomy laws are wrong but so is gay marriage? Can a man not put the rule of law about the rule of men?

    Can a man not believe Leviticus 22 and fear for his country without being accused of hating gays? Can a Christian baker serve gays for years knowing that they are gay and not decline to do their wedding as it is a bridge too far?

    The only real intolerance I see is that towards traditional Christian values.

    As for your brethren would it not have been the Biblical/Christian thing to have talked to him in private first about his callous behavior?

    Mathew 18:15 If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
    I bet you've even got a black friend, too

  10. #235
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    Can a man not believe Leviticus 22 and fear for his country without being accused of hating gays? Can a Christian baker serve gays for years knowing that they are gay and not decline to do their wedding as it is a bridge too far?
    That depends, do you believe Leviticus 19:19? Do you think mules are abominations? Do you shred your part cotton part polyester clothes?
    Do unto others before they do unto you

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by justingroves View Post
    I bet you've even got a black friend, too
    Didn't you know? He met him when he did that thing, in that place. It was really important.

    We'll hear about it again, don't worry.
    Do unto others before they do unto you

  12. #237

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    Quote Originally Posted by fl0at_ View Post
    And in what way does that not equally apply to gay people, but applies to someone of race x, y or z?

    Original intent allowed for discrimination by race, which is why there was a whole Brown case of some import maybe one of your friends has heard of.

    You can't claim discrimination by race is not a "persecution" while the other is;
    The 14th amendment was about affording blacks equal rights. The men who wrote it did not have homosexual marriage in mind. Also, when you read accounts of the debate you learn that birthright citizenship was not something the amendment conferred to children of foreigners born here.
    Baruch Haba B'shem Adonai​

  13. #238

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    Quote Originally Posted by justingroves View Post
    I bet you've even got a black friend, too
    And a black business partner who voted for Trump.
    Baruch Haba B'shem Adonai​

  14. #239

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    Quote Originally Posted by fl0at_ View Post
    Didn't you know? He met him when he did that thing, in that place. It was really important.

    We'll hear about it again, don't worry.
    I am sorry that you have no life experiences to share.
    Baruch Haba B'shem Adonai​

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by dc4utvols View Post
    I am sorry that you have no life experiences to share.
    Everyone else, though, is glad that I share no life experiences.

    Let's set that as your next goal. You can tell people about that one time you stuck to logic for argument, instead of stories, and it made you a better person.
    Do unto others before they do unto you

  16. #241

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    Quote Originally Posted by fl0at_ View Post
    That depends, do you believe Leviticus 19:19? Do you think mules are abominations? Do you shred your part cotton part polyester clothes?
    I have read what Paul revealed on these subjects.

    Do countries have souls? Is salvation collective or an individual act? How then does God deal with nations that go astray?
    Baruch Haba B'shem Adonai​

  17. #242

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    Quote Originally Posted by fl0at_ View Post
    Everyone else, though, is glad that I share no life experiences.

    Let's set that as your next goal. You can tell people about that one time you stuck to logic for argument, instead of stories, and it made you a better person.
    That bad huh?

    I will pass on your advice.

    I also noted how I introduced new topics and they were all thrown into one thread. They weren't full of anecdote and there was nothing to be "paired" down.
    Baruch Haba B'shem Adonai​

  18. #243

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    Quote Originally Posted by dc4utvols View Post
    That bad huh?

    I will pass on your advice.

    I also noted how I introduced new topics and they were all thrown into one thread. They weren't full of anecdote and there was nothing to be "paired" down.
    No one responded to the threads. Get more interesting and it won't feel like you are spamming the board.

  19. #244

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    Quote Originally Posted by droski View Post
    No one responded to the threads. Get more interesting and it won't feel like you are spamming the board.
    Those are things that interest me. I can not know if it might interest others without posting it first. I probably average reading 30 or more articles a day. I pick what I feel are the important/interesting ones of the day to share, share my perspective sometimes, and try to open a dialogue on the subject.

    LOL am I the only one who isn't a moderator on this board. I picked 3 for my boards and I picked that number and the ones I did to make it hard for anyone to be banned. I dont moderate my boards because I want to engage others without that interfering. All three had to agree to banning someone before it could happen. Its only happened twice.

    The Volquest Political board was a free for all and had no mod over there for years. It was a very active board. A poster would run to Brent Hubbs and complain about speech he didn't like. Hubbs finally shut it down.

    BTW thanks for the clarification droski!
    Last edited by dc4utvols; 04-21-2017 at 10:43 AM.
    Baruch Haba B'shem Adonai​

  20. #245

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    Quote Originally Posted by dc4utvols View Post
    Those are things that interest me. I can not know if it might interest others without posting it first. I probably average reading 30 or more articles a day. I pick what I feel are the important/interesting ones of the day to share, share my perspective sometimes, and try to open a dialogue on the subject.

    LOL am I the only one who isn't a moderator on this board. I picked 3 for my boards and I picked that number and the ones I did to make it hard for anyone to be banned. I dont moderate my boards because I want to engage others without that interfering. All three had to agree to banning someone before it could happen. Its only happened twice.

    The Volquest Political board was a free for all and had no mod over there for years. It was a very active board. A poster would run to Brent Hubbs and complain about speech he didn't like. Hubbs finally shut it down.
    Where has moderation interfered with your ability to engage with others?

  21. #246

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    I think this board has banned 2 (maybe 3) people in all its life, and those were because of extreme racism and I think one guy was just being a complete dick to everyone.

    The only threads I can remember being deleted or heavily moderated were ones that broke the rules of the forum concerning things that makes Google Ads angry.

    I am a moderator in name only. I just came here for the punch and pie.
    "Almost all close games are lost by the losers, not won by the winners." - Gen Neyland

  22. #247

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorrisAlan View Post
    I think this board has banned 2 (maybe 3) people in all its life, and those were because of extreme racism and I think one guy was just being a complete dick to everyone.

    The only threads I can remember being deleted or heavily moderated were ones that broke the rules of the forum concerning things that makes Google Ads angry.

    I am a moderator in name only. I just came here for the punch and pie.
    I came for the tiara. Still waiting.

  23. #248

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgmentVol View Post
    Where has moderation interfered with your ability to engage with others?
    Well since I created the board and am a partisan I didn't want any decision to be seen as something unfair because I didn't like a poster or that I was censoring someone who opposed my views. Also, I didn't want the headache of dealing with whiners bitching about other posters. "Mommy johnny spit a spitwad at me boo hoo."

    Also I knew that a couple of the people wouldn't last a day if I left it up to any one mod. One of those was gone within 6 months though LOL.
    Last edited by dc4utvols; 04-21-2017 at 10:45 AM.
    Baruch Haba B'shem Adonai​

  24. #249

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgmentVol View Post
    Where has moderation interfered with your ability to engage with others?
    Sorry I may have misunderstood your question...you mean here I assume...interfere? not so far but I did get clarification from droski on something I mildly objected to.
    Baruch Haba B'shem Adonai​

  25. #250

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    Quote Originally Posted by gcbvol View Post
    I came for the tiara. Still waiting.
    You already have one of the better avatar pics
    Baruch Haba B'shem Adonai​

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