POLITICS Violence Against Asian Americans

Discussion in 'Politicants' started by Indy, Mar 20, 2021.

  1. Indy

    Indy Pronoun Analyst

    My Asian American fiancé and I are listening to the NYT podcast “The Daily” while we clean up our house for guests arriving tomorrow. They’re discussing the recent shooting in Atlanta, and the reporter said:

    “Every Asian American I’ve talked to has just been feeling under such attack the past few months.”

    My fiancé popped her head out of the closet and just gave me a “wait, what did she just say?” sort of look. She then told me that she has not heard from any Asian American person, despite knowing many (of different ages) in many parts of the country, that they have felt attacked over the last few months.

    I’m posting this thread in hopes that we can have a discussion about something inevitably political without tying it directly to Biden or Trump. I’ll start with some questions:

    I’ve read that statistics show violence against Asian Americans has risen substantially since the beginning of Covid.
    • What percentage of this violence is considered “hate crimes?”
    • What percentage of the total violence includes a Caucasian perpetrator?
    • What percentage of the violence specifically categorized as “hate crimes” includes a Caucasian perpetrator?
    • Do you think the shooting in Atlanta was a hate crime? Why or why not?
    • Do you think the shooting in Atlanta was an example or result of white supremacy? Why or why not?
    • Do you think average, every day Asian Americans are feeling “under attack” right now? I ask because I’ve just heard two polar opposite answers.
    Looking forward to a robust discussion!
     
  2. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    Things that are hate crimes aren't often prosecuted as a hate crime simply because it makes it a Federal thing, vs a state thing.

    So because of that, your questions are all kind of garbage.

    Most people day to day don't feel under attack, but don't tell the military lovers that. They think they're out there protecting our freedoms.
     
  3. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    Indy has a sample of 1, and is ready to defend the conclusions he draws from it. This is normal Indy behavior.
     
  4. Indy

    Indy Pronoun Analyst

    I posted questions, not conclusions.

    Which do you think is more likely, that my fiancé is exaggerating when she says she doesn’t know “any,” or that this reporter is exaggerating when she says “every?”

    Is my fiancé’s experience a sample of 1 if she knows 10+ Asian Americans? 25+? 50+? Seems like the sample size would be based more on the people saying they feel under attack than the people hearing that others feel under attack. She’s got older family in middle Tennessee and Chicago, younger family in both, plus out west. Then we are obviously on the east coast. Then she has her friends, who are in various parts of the country as well. Seems like pretty good coverage to me?

    As a guy who is most likely going to have half Asian American kids eventually, I’m trying to understand. I’m not sure what’s wrong with that, in your eyes. Maybe you’re making some assumptions you should step back from.
     
  5. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    I only know what you post here. I have personally seen people make racist comments to the Korean family that ran the corner store where I used to live, and to an Asian couple that lived in my building in the last 6 months. I am glad your lady and her family have had no issues. But like so many conversations with you, it is clear that if it doesn't happen in your immediate vicinity, you question whether it is a significant thing at all. That's pretty much ever societal issue. It's the Indy Show. Nothing else is relevant. Like, had you never seen a giraffe anywhere, and only had them described to you and perhaps seen some pictures... would you ask questions about the existence of giraffes? Yes. Yes, you would. Even if millions of others told you they were real.
     
    InVolNerable likes this.
  6. Indy

    Indy Pronoun Analyst

    Asking about the significance of something is not the same thing as saying it doesn’t happen. If you’re going to make up my position for me, at least pick a lane.

    Your giraffes comparison might make sense if I had asked the question “does violence against Asian American people happen” or “does violence against Asian Americans happen a lot?” Not only did I not ask that - I actually stated in my original post that statistics show it has increased substantially.

    I’m not the one who reacted to the quote in the podcast. I’m asking my questions based on the reaction I saw from someone else who is very much plugged in to the community being discussed. If you can’t have a discussion without creating my position for me based on past discussions, then maybe you’d be better off not participating?
     
  7. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    Except that you've answered your own questions, or caged them.

    Does the average... no. Do many... yes. And you can conclude many because stats went up.

    Those people who were the stats probably weren't like, oh, this is fine.

    So why the need for the "average" qualifier in your question?
     
  8. Indy

    Indy Pronoun Analyst

    You’re so full of shit. I haven’t caged anything.

    I’m trying to understand how every Asian American this NYT reporter speaks to can feel under attack while none of the Asian Americans my fiancé speaks to feel that way.

    My fiancé and I are average, every day people. That’s why I qualify with average. When we have children, they will be average, every day, half Asian American people. That’s why I qualify with average.

    How do you want me to ask the question, Float?

    “Do any Asian Americans feel under attack?” That would be a waste of time because we already know the answer. Every Asian American that NYT reporter knows feels under attack, so any is already satisfied.

    “Do many Asian Americans feel under attack?” Well, you’d have to define many. Is many just a random number, or is it a certain percentage? If a percentage, is it more than half? Because then you’re already past average, so why not just start with average?

    Obviously the victims of the new statistics don’t think it’s fine. I’m asking questions to better understand why those statistics have gone up.
     
  9. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    You have caged it. You may think it is valid, but that is irrelevant to it being caged or not. I don't find it to be valid, and I've explained why. But I'll do so again, to answer your little nagging questions that you can't figure out for yourself.

    Your finance and yourself are average people. That's why. The less average you are, the more likely you are to feel threatened by things. Don't believe me, look at people in gated communities. My sister has lived in a gated community for a decade, and she thinks everyone (well, all black people) is out to break in to her home. They aren't. Nobody is.

    I know plenty of stay at home women with ZERO concerns on Xanax. Why? Because they have so few concerns in real life, that they've made imaginary ones.

    Look at the other side. I imagine a lot of low income people working at 7/11s are much more worried about being mugged than you are, in a 7/11. And it doesn't matter how many college educated, or working professionals you ask, you'll probably get a different answer than if you asked 7/11 employees.

    Now, you can say this person exaggerated it, more so than your marked e on finance, or, you can trust people, and say, wow, this person probably is on a different level socially than me, or is talking to others outside their social order, which would be common, for a friggen reporter.

    So, Indy, you and your fiance are going to have GREATLY different interactions with vastly different people, than, some NYT reporter, most likely.

    You don't have to qualify many, you can look at the stats. If the stats are increasing, then you just conclude that more Asian Americans feel under attack than previously. And that's enough to conclude that more Asian Americans feel under attack, than previous normals. Even if every one you talk to doesn't feel that way. We have empirical evidence that they do, without having to bring in anecdotal evidence.

    With all the anti China rhetoric by both sides, businesses, and etc, it is not hard to understand why Asian Americans are being attacked more.
     
    HCKevinSteele likes this.
  10. VolDad

    VolDad Super Moderator

    Have I been ignorant all of these years?!? I thought these SPAs/Massage Parlors were legitimate. I thought they might take massages to a little more erotic place than the others, with the occasional employee willing to go the happy ending extra mile for a tip. But I thought they were by and large, massage parlors.

    But with the killer targeting them because of a supposed sex addition I have to ask. Are these houses of prostitution that the police overlook because it is not out in the open?
     
  11. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    I kinda wondered this since the shootings. Sex workers seemed to rally around them on social media as if it was a given that this was sex work... But I don't know that that is factual? He could be going there and getting all hot and bothered and sexualizing the experience, but the person is just giving a massage, right? Don't know.
     
  12. Ssmiff

    Ssmiff Went to the White House...Again

    Those places were rated on sites regarding sexual favors. Not sure it was all about dude being anti Asian. Just so happens those places are the more risqué ones compared to a national chain with legit massages
     
  13. droski

    droski Traffic Criminal

    there was a husband and wife getting separate massages. Interesting
     
  14. CardinalVol

    CardinalVol Uncultured, non-diverse mod

    I'm not sure I've ever heard of one that didn't have the extras you could get.
     
  15. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    So why is nothing being done to these places?

    Sure seems like the law is incredibly unevenly applied in this country. I would prefer so long as everyone is a willing participant, government stays out of these kinds of things, but it seems weird that it is illegal but they look the other way if it is in a parlor.
     
  16. Ssmiff

    Ssmiff Went to the White House...Again

    Nashville had a lot of them a few years ago. Think it depends a little on nuisance complaints and politicians. If neither care, they aren't going to waste resources on arresting people for giving or taking a handy
     
  17. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    Then the law should reflect that.
     
    SetVol13 likes this.
  18. Indy

    Indy Pronoun Analyst

    Just so we are clear, there’s nothing dramatic about autocorrect:

    [​IMG]

    Why does my fiancé and I being average mean that all the other Asian folks she interacts with are average? For all you know, she speaks with multiple Asians who work at 7/11, as well as multiple Asians living in gated communities. Why are you assuming she doesn’t?

    In my experience, most people who speak in absolutes tend to be exaggerating.

    No one is arguing that against your assertion that more Asian Americans feel under attack than previous norms. She used the word “every,” not “more.”
     
  19. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    If we're going by what she said, what you quoted was:

    "“Every Asian American I’ve talked to has just been feeling under such attack the past few months."

    See the "I've talked to" bit there just a few words after every?

    See that bit? That means if we're going to go by what she was saying, the we can just conclude your fiance (no fancy lettering) and she haven't talked to the same people.

    If we're just going to go by what was said.
     
  20. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    If you are going there, Tenacious D taught me that it is actually "fiancée." He gracefully spelled it correctly and without comment in a reply to me, and I looked it up and will never forget it.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fiancée
     

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