Ferguson, MO

Discussion in 'The Thunderdome' started by CardinalVol, Aug 14, 2014.

  1. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    This must explain why there are no new drug users in America.

    Who is advocating the removal of treatment as an element of addressing the epidemic? Did someone say that?

    Should people with mental disordera be exempted from following the law? If so, what disorders, and which laws? Or are addictive personalities somehow entirely different, or more blameless?

    Would it hurt less if I accidentally punched you in the nose, than if I deliberately did so, all things being equal?

    And you do think that drug use is an attack on society, or not?
     
  2. Volst53

    Volst53 Super Moderator


    If drugs were legal, pharmaceuticals would offer better and safer alternatives to meth, crack, and heroin. The black market sellers push the harder drugs due to them being easier to package and sell in smaller quantities than weed and coke.
     
  3. droski

    droski Traffic Criminal

    oh I fully believe addicts have something screwed up in their head. I think something chemically is telling them it's ok to be a selfish **** while most people think "hey I need to stop here."
     
  4. droski

    droski Traffic Criminal

    I still don't see how that results in less usage.
     
  5. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    I think decriminalization would lead to more addicts seeking help and less crime and negative effects from it coming from a black market. I am basing this off of actual nations that have done this.

    It comes down to this: you are trying to drive out drug users and suppliers. I'm advocating assisting, rehabilitating drug users and cutting out nefarious suppliers. You are pointing to a failed policy and insisting that it is evidence to strengthen it. I'm pointing to a successful policy and advocating adopting it.
     
  6. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    Some of the things in the link suggest that addiction is actually a coping mechanism for pain and damage in addicts. It literally is a slow suicide.
     
  7. CardinalVol

    CardinalVol Uncultured, non-diverse mod

    I'd be willing to wipe the slate clean on any user who voluntarily comes forward for help as long as they can complete the program and stay clean.
     
  8. droski

    droski Traffic Criminal

    I believe it.
     
  9. Beechervol

    Beechervol Super Moderator

    I dont think it will either.
     
  10. Volst53

    Volst53 Super Moderator

    Because instead of going to a seller on the street corner you'd be going to an established business and they wouldn't be pushing harder drugs on a user.
     
  11. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    I don't understand your first sentence. I'll just ignore it unless you think it is important and would like to clarify. Lord knows I shouldn't assume any meaning.

    If drug use is criminal, a user is less likely to turn themselves in and reveal themselves a criminal. I think that is logical, but you can correct me if you feel otherwise.

    No. But the law should be just in how it deals with people suffering from mental illness/disorder, commensurate with the offense. Note that this whole line of thought is putting the cart before the horse. We are talking changing law, so it is already implicit that I don't think they should be exempt from the law or I wouldn't be talking about a change.

    No. Would you charge a man having a seizure with assault and battery if he hit someone in the face while seizing? Should intent not be considered when evaluating crimes anymore? No manslaughter, just murder 1? We already have a nuanced way of evaluating other crimes, I don't see why one predicated on addiction should be treated in a more draconian fashion than the taking of a life.

    I think drug abuse is harmful to society. I do not think the person abusing is doing so with the mindset of a terrorist, or with the disregard of an illegal dumper. That isn't to say they are blameless, just that there is a fundamental loss of reasoning and decision-making skills implicit with addiction. No doubt at some point they made bad choices to arrive at that predicament, but first foremost that person should be reclaimed and redeemed. Amends can come later. Prison sentences are clearly not rehabilitating people into society.

    This is ballooning into another discussion about what the goal of our justice system really is. Should it be only punitive, or should it be rehabilitative? Right now, we send drug addicts to prison for long periods of time, and they have a high rate of offending again. Why not try something different?
     
  12. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    I'm willing to compromise and have a hybrid system such as this. See how it goes.
     
  13. CardinalVol

    CardinalVol Uncultured, non-diverse mod

    All depends on which is the most profitable.
     
  14. Indy

    Indy Pronoun Analyst

    Holy shit, someone finally said this. It's been pages.
     
  15. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    You realize I myself have been saying "decriminalize", right? Let me know if I am mistaken, but I don't think I ever said "legalize" myself.
     
  16. Indy

    Indy Pronoun Analyst

    I'm well aware of that detail.

    Yet we have people essentially speaking in agreement with you and talking about setting up businesses to legally sell drugs. And you haven't said a word about it yet (Though I haven't caught up to the last page quite yet). So how did Portugal fare in their establishment of businesses to legally sell drugs?
     
  17. Indy

    Indy Pronoun Analyst

    And IP, does any data show that Portugal's change in drug policy resulted in less drug use? If so, please show me.
     
  18. Unimane

    Unimane Kill "The Caucasian"

  19. Indy

    Indy Pronoun Analyst

    There appears to be conflicting reports on the true conclusions that can be drawn from the data.

    http://www.wfad.se/latest-news/1-articles/123-decriminalization-of-drugs-in-portugal--the-real-facts

    https://kar.kent.ac.uk/29901/1/Hughes Stevens 2012.pdf

    From what I can gather from reading through a number of articles, the results cannot be 100% credited to the decriminalization of drugs because the new medical approach to addiction plays just as, if not a bigger part.

    It appears that both sides of the debate tend to overstate the ways in which the data backs up their positions, and that the policy changes have been neither an overwhelming success nor a disaster.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2015
  20. JohnnyQuickkick

    JohnnyQuickkick Calcio correspondent

    will we get a cristiano ronaldo if we decriminalize drugs?
     

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