The NBA Thread.

Good Lord. Winning with an all-time great team doesn't mean you would win a title with literally any team. People are talking like the Sixers would be NBA champions if you just gave them Jordan.

 

THat must be it. THey stopped making coordinated guys who are seven feet tall. It's a glitch in the genetic system. Another code cracked!

 

Impact and legacy, sure. I agree.*
Value added to a basketball team is where the argument becomes quite arguable.

*If there were a way to quantify the level of widespread Jordan Nostalgia at any given moment, there would immediately no longer be a way because any scale woudl immediately break.

 

I'm not sure why this was necessary.

There aren't any centers in the league right now that good.

 

LeBron hasn't taken a Sixers-esque team to the finals, has he?

 

The next great center will win plenty. Dream walks in tomorrow and he'll win. Shaq with a little help wins.

Who is the current center who can play?

 

I'm not sure there's been another Sixers-esque team anywhere, but the 2007 Cavs and the 2015 edition that actually faced the Warriors (without Kyrie and Love) were garbage. To me it's dumb to say that Jordan would automatically and singlehandedly just clutch them into championships. He had Hall of Fame teammates when he was winning, that doesn't mean he's doing the same thing with Ilgauskas and Larry Hughes against the Spurs

 

Swap in MJ for Lebron on that 2009 Cavs team. What's the result?

All are invited to take a stab at this hypothetical, and all are especially encouraged to do so without passion or prejudice but definitely with a straight face.

 

Again, there is certainly a reason that there aren't any dominant centers. So far two possible reason have been proposed:
1. the role of the center has evolved, and importance diminished, with the evolution of the game as a whole.
2. God forgot to stock the appropriate talent pool for 20 straight years. He messed up. "everybody makes mistakess," he said. "I feel really bad, though".

One of these reasons elicits a roll of the yes, sideways shake of the head, or air jerking motion of the hand in any and all reasonable human beings.

 

Dominant centers are rare. Kareem in 1969, Olajuwon in 1984, Robertson in 1987 and Shaq in 1992. Who else? Duncan was never a true center. Anthony Davis isn't really a true center but he's a great player.

The game has evolved, but there's also not many freaks like Shaq alive.

 

Gasol doesn't have the dominant mindset, but he is great

 

I have puzzled over this question a lot. 2 seems unreasonable, but it is even more unreasonable to say that there is a Chamberlain level talent out there that is not being utilized at all. The idea that there were around 7-10 seven footers in the Chamberlain through Shaq and virtually none in the 21st century COULD be a black swan type deal. Average could be 2 per decade (which is what it seemed to be in the 50's through 90's), which makes having a decade or two where there are 0 or 1 (Oden arguably could have been that guy) a statistically reasonable thing.

Other possibility is that there are now a lot more 6-8 to 6-10 Bill Russell type guys compared to what there used to be. As nutrition and sports culture have increased a lot less Draemond Green/Kevin Durant size types are falling throught the youth sport cracks and a lot more are growing to this height. Their relative abundance and sheer athleticism decrease the value added of a 7 footer that may not quite be as athletic.

Still it is hard to argue that a Wilt or Kareem level talent is out there and not showing out.

That argument is even less credible than the idea that nature isn't providing them right now.

 

Yeah, this is where kid and I disagree. If there's a giant freak of nature like Shaq out there, he'll dominate. Even Dwight Howard had his moments. It's dumb to say centers are now obsolete. The game is about mismatches, and Shaq would still be a major one.

 

If you have someone that no one can guard, you'll be successful. it doesn't really matter what position they play

 

I'll take Jordan over James and win, all day, every day. Hell, the best attribute that you apply to James, attacking the rim, probably isn't as good as Jordan did it circa late 80s and 90s and Jordan did it in a much more physical era. I also think that Jordan is a better defender, maybe just slightly. Jordan also averaged about 1 less rebound and 1 less assist per game than does James, which is fairly negligible.

Aside from the numbers, this "killer instinct" you speak about is entirely real. Jordan was a killer, an absolute cutthroat that James isn't. If I have a game that I absolutely have to win, there's no question that Jordan is going to deliver and I'm going to win. James I would feel fairly confident, but not 100% sure that I wouldn't get one of his few duds that have spotted his career in big games.

 

The 2007 team would have been one of the league's worst without Lebron

 

The next great NBA center is definitely KAT. He can step outside, post up, put it on the floor. He's the perfect Center for today's game.

 

Keep hoping. Name them. Dream wouldn't kill this NBA? Shaq? Kareem? Wilt? Stop being silly. There aren't any of those guys around right now.

 

try finding a coach that even knows how to train big men anymore.

 

Yeah.