Social Injustice

Discussion in 'The Thunderdome' started by cotton, Sep 9, 2016.

  1. cotton

    cotton Stand-up Philosopher

    If you do not have some sort of idea about what should have been done in Baltimore or Ferguson, what makes you so certain that what was done was racist, unjust, wrong?

    Read that as quickly as you like.
     
  2. NashVol11

    NashVol11 Well-Known Member

    I don't assume that any of these officers acted out of racism, though I'm sure there are some bad apples. I'm responding to what Kaepernick said, which is that minorities are oppressed and that officers are shooting people without consequence. I don't fully agree with either part of that, nor do I think the system is rigged. I do think that people in more dangerous neighborhoods are far more likely to get arrested for minor crimes that kids in the suburbs get away with, because the latter has a much lower police presence. I think this imbalance fosters a more antagonistic relationship between citizens and officers in those more dangerous neighborhoods, leaving both sides on edge even if there isn't discriminatory intent. I think most people are aware of this imbalance, but nothing changes, which leads to more frustration.

    I think ending the drug war would go a long way toward alleviating this frustration, and I think making it harder for any power-hungry average Joe to get a badge--or, at least, setting a high nationwide bar for training officers--would help as well. The consequences in some of these cases do strike me as minor, but I understand that certain elements can be hard to prove and I definitely do not advocate throwing out the justice system and ignoring its decisions.

    Flame away
     
  3. NashVol11

    NashVol11 Well-Known Member

    I guess the point I'm making isn't that I'm sure things have been handled incorrectly. I'm sure that in most cases, the correct process was followed. But I'm not willing to say that it's done perfectly every time, and that minorities are just making this whole thing up. I think both sides bear some responsibility, and I can understand the frustration that leads to many of these protests. I wish there were a good way to weed out said bad apples, but I don't know what that way is.
     
  4. bigpapavol

    bigpapavol Chieftain

    Oppressed. I laughed. By the flag? By the flag bearer? By the country?
     
  5. cotton

    cotton Stand-up Philosopher

    That's funny. I thought this entire discussion was brought up by the fact that I questioned whether officers kill unarmed black people without any consequence, an assertion made by IP.

    Weren't you bashing me for saying I don't agree with part of that?

    I'm not sure this squares with somebody attempting to excoriate me for defending the justice system, but maybe it's progress.
     
  6. cotton

    cotton Stand-up Philosopher

    Song is oppressive.
     
  7. NashVol11

    NashVol11 Well-Known Member

    Those are his words, not mine, which I think sometimes gets lost
     
  8. bigpapavol

    bigpapavol Chieftain

    Not lost. You're defending them as anything but absurd. Glad I don't have to.
     
  9. NashVol11

    NashVol11 Well-Known Member

    I think "oppressed" is absurd. But the frustration that I think is behind it doesn't surprise me. Seems like more and more athletes are joining in
     
  10. bigpapavol

    bigpapavol Chieftain

    Being surprised or not is different than acting like the guy has a good point.
     
  11. NashVol11

    NashVol11 Well-Known Member

    I was asking what you thought of the result and you were defending the process. That's a separate issue.
     
  12. NashVol11

    NashVol11 Well-Known Member

    Based on the videos and the punishments, I can see why he would be frustrated, and apparently several others do as well. I think some of his statements are very poorly worded, but I don't automatically dismiss his overall concerns because of it, which apparently sets me apart here.

    Not everyone is well-spoken. Based on how stupid people are saying he is, I expected the locker room interview to be a trainwreck, but I thought he handled it decently well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2016
  13. kidbourbon

    kidbourbon Well-Known Member


    What do you mean by ending the drug war? Legalization of all drugs?

    This discussion would probably merit its own thread. I have libertarian leanings, which makes me sympathetic to this argument, but I'm also not all in on it either. I think that the practical reality of legalizing drugs would be more people with massive drug problems, and more crime as a result. Basically, Washington DC in the 1980s.
     
  14. kidbourbon

    kidbourbon Well-Known Member

    The absurdity of the Kaep position* cannot be overstated. It is ludicrous. Anyone who takes it seriously has misplaced their thinking cap.


    *I hope this is what we are talking about. This thread appears to be a continuation of another thread I haven't seen.
     
  15. NashVol11

    NashVol11 Well-Known Member

    By the way, this all started with someone saying he can't complain because America made him rich. Pointing out that that terrible argument was a terrible argument is what apparently cemented my place as Kaepernick's BFF
     
  16. hatvol96

    hatvol96 Well-Known Member

    He's choosing an odd hill to fight on, but anyone who thinks black citizens aren't treated differently by law enforcement is out to lunch.
     
  17. hatvol96

    hatvol96 Well-Known Member

    He's not talking about himself. Not hard for anyone not invested in sucking the [penis] of the establishment to understand.
     
  18. bigpapavol

    bigpapavol Chieftain

    This ignores the first instances in individual cases and the stats don't back it up. Appalachian rednecks get the same. My cousins in West TN are treated the same. They respect laws almost none.

    Is the injustice? Yes. Is there a police abuse of power issue in the US? Sure. Is there one everywhere in the world? Yes. Is it about race? Maybe in one off cases, but it's worldwide. It isn't the nation. It's an a use of power problem in individuals and a human condition.

    The stats don't at all support the stand that police shootings of black men happens more than any other shootings. This national conversation thing is absurd. That's about overreaching federal policy that would somehow make this right and the idea is stupid as hell. This conversation, on an adversarial basis, isn't going to change it.
     
  19. bigpapavol

    bigpapavol Chieftain

    Who is the establishment? What do they gain in perpetuating a biased system?
    I'd love to identify the national group making all of this happen. Better yet, I'd love to hear how the fix is going to apply so we can tell the Turks in Germany how to make the conversation work for them.
     
  20. hatvol96

    hatvol96 Well-Known Member

    Those already in power. They maintain their power unabated. Those were two really easy questions to answer.
     

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