POLITICS President Trump: 100+ Mornings After (Term 1 Complete)

Mental health is a stigma in this country. You could hand it out for free on the sidewalks, and people who needed it, wouldn't get it.

 

Yep

 

had the family and victim sought help? I don't know the backstory. Maybe you do. Its easier to blame the police or get political. Maybe it was preventable, maybe not. The statement was made that mental health professionals should be involved. Why do you have a problem if we know history, treatment, lack of...etc? If he had a dr, I would hope the family would call him directly for help. If he didn't have a dr, why not? Additionally, some will always argue not all have access, which isn't true.

 

No, it's just true. Police shot him. Therefore they are to blame for shooting him.

We can discuss why they shot him--but they shot him, they are to blame for shooting him.

 

I'm not blaming a hammer for hammering and I don't see this as political in itself. Another tool was needed.

 

Not arguing with you but wondering - how would a mental health professional handle this situation differently when the guy's brain is scrambled eggs and he can't comprehend instructions?

 

A mental health professional would de-escalate. Which is what law enforcement should have done. But law enforcement isn't trained to cordon and de-escalate with a "deadly" weapon. Because they don't know which incident is a brain scrambled person, and which isn't.

So they treat them all the same. And that's the problem.

 

How does a mental health professional de-escalate with someone who is wielding a knife, putting the lives of other people in danger, and incapable of comprehending instructions because his brain is scrambled eggs? Like, what physical action do they take to do that? What action do they take that makes his brain no longer scrambled eggs and able to comprehend instructions?

 

You don't take physical action. You cordon and allow time to de-escalate.

 

Say an ambulance shows up with a mental health dr in a white coat, but the guy has a knife and starts cutting people up. What then?
on a whole other subject, i don't trust too many meds, and not so sure what pills really do help with bpd and which ones make things worse. Feel bad for people who really struggle with it. The man wasn't in reality in his head at that time.
I don't know why they didn't taze him, and, I still don't know why they don't shoot guys in the arm or leg, vs panicly firing like a video game. Either one of those and the man is in the hospital getting the help he needs. Would have been justified and better outcome for everyone.

 

Not trying to get trapped in another game of word gymnastics with you, but I'm pretty sure "cordon" is a physical action.

How does a mental health professional safely cordon a man whose brain is scrambled eggs, who is not able to comprehend instructions, and who is wielding a knife and is outside?

 

A bullet is lethal force. If you are using lethal force, you aim to kill. It is damn hard to hit someone in the leg that is walking, anyway.

 

Fine, cordon is a passive physical action, rather than an active physical action.

Ever played keep away, outside, where there is lots of space? That's how you cordon a person outside. You play keep away, them from others, others from them. It's a knife. That means the deadly weapon has an effective range of about 5 feet. So you keep the person and other people outside of 5 feet away. You can use a stick (now it's active if used against the person).

And then, you keep that person from going inside other places. And eventually, they'll get really tired. Because being herded (hey, herding, that's a word that could describe the method too, amazing) is trying. And when they tire... oh my, they sit down, or lay down, or drop what is in their hands.

Only you could ask questions about a simple action. This is what law enforcement should have done. This is what law enforcement should do when they respond with a social worker with them.

 

I'm just going to stop here and take this in for a moment. I'll come back to the rest of the post in a bit.

 

Everything done by the body is a physical action. I thought you were intelligent enough to know that by physical action, I'm not talking about things like walking around, or breathing. But I was wrong, you aren't, so I'll expand the meaning so you can comprehend it.

In a cordon, one walks around some. And walking is a physical action.

 

on the first part, you give the guy space and time, not approach him. This stuff is done all over the world, including here. it may not work 100% of the time, but it is pretty effective. you can shoot someone a dozen times after trying it a professional way, still. And as you said, there are nonlethal methods to attempt. imagine if instead of just police, a couple of folks with experience dealing with manic episodes came with them and did the talking? the shooting stuff is always an option, but should be the last resort rather than the predictable response.

 

I introduced physical action into the conversation because I wanted to know what the social worker was going to do. You're the one who claimed the social worker wouldn't take physical action.

It's okay to be wrong/make mistakes.

 

on the flip side, they shot him many times all over. Trigger discipline is fair to question, we are not in a grey area.

 

One of the gun nuts on this site should make you feel dumb for saying this.

 

If the social worker deployed with the police is a ranking officer, that isn't tactical, they don't have to do anything other than give orders. But using one's mouth to give an order is a physical action. Like breathing.

You are absolutely correct, I was wrong for thinking that you were intelligence enough to understand things like breathing wasn't what I meant by physical action. So, again, I expanded the pool because I was wrong. You aren't intelligence enough to understand.