POLITICS AOC Election Chances

Discussion in 'Politicants' started by Savage Orange, Mar 11, 2019.

  1. Volst53

    Volst53 Super Moderator

    A general welfare doesn't make it socialist.

    And a lot of those programs are far from something I'd sell as working like a dream and demonstrating how well it works.
     
  2. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    right, America sucks, Europe sucks... where doesn't it suck, and what do they do?
     
  3. Volst53

    Volst53 Super Moderator

    I don't think America sucks. We're not perfect but we still have the best system in place and have benefited from it like no other country in the world.

    There's still no where else I'd rather live. Europe is in interesting times with the influx of diversity.
     
  4. TennTradition

    TennTradition Super Moderator

    She did say Keystone XL which is an export line that hasn’t been completed. But it’s pretty clear she meant Keystone Pipeline (without the XL) that did leak in South Dakota. All of these lines are/will be part of the Keystone system. I’m not going to get too worked up about interchanging XL with no XL.
     
  5. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    that's also how I see it.

    if we want to hold officials to the most precise language possible, we are picking a hell of a time to start.
     
  6. kmf600

    kmf600 Energy vampire

    You keep saying this, but a it's not what the socialist want. Yes, we all pay taxes and get to use "free" stuff like roads and education. But they want Lebron to make 10 million a year, and give the rest to the government so we don't have nasty stuff like 20 oz Mountain Dew
     
  7. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    I don't think that the earnings of lebron or having mountain dew are really part of the conversation.
     
  8. kmf600

    kmf600 Energy vampire

    Ok, you want Lebron to see the same doctor as a guy that lives under a bridge? And Lebron has to pay for both dr visits. I'm getting closer?
     
  9. JayVols

    JayVols Walleye Catchin' Moderator

    It's not fair, but leadership involves leading because it's the right thing to do.

    You do it so your kids and grandkids can have a chance at living in a healthy environment. What we leave behind is a reflection of what we do while here.

    If you want fair, read children's books. Leadership is hard. That's why there are very few who are willing and able to lead.
     
  10. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    yes, you are getting closer. I want both to have a good doctor. I want the doctors to be paid. I want the guy to not have to live under a bridge if he doesn't want to. I want him to contribute to society, receiving whatever mental care necessary for him to do so. you can say the government shouldn't do that and/or can't do it well. I can point out that trying what we have been is how we got to this situation in the first place. the way I see it, the only choices are to accept the world as it is or not to. I don't accept it.
     
  11. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    It’s more likely than not that she royally screws this up. That she’s off to an exceedingly terrible start is beyond any serious debate.

    But it’s also true that she’s 27, brand new to adulthood, not to mention national politics, and she’s still very much full of so much piss and vinegar. It’s served her quite well, or she wouldn’t be where she now finds herself. But it’s also a very large stage, with bright lights, where there are innumerously important dynamics at work both around and beyond her, most of which undoubtedly remain unknown to her, and that she likely could neither understand nor is now willing / capable of fully considering.

    If AOC wanted to most quickly and effectively get her shit tightly together, became truly serious and committed to doing more with this golden opportunity now before her - she’d be spending most of every waking moment learning how best to navigate the minefields and play the game from Pelosi*. Yes, they have differences, many stark and serious, but I’m not talking about adopting all of her positions, but just in learning how to play and win the game, and which she desperately needs to get quickly up to speed on. The inherently useful purpose of making / keeping alliances with those to whom you may largely disagree would be an excellent and most helpful first lesson.

    And, to be clear - this isn’t unique to AOC, in any way. Rather, such is the stark reality of both youth and national politics, and which would similarly prove fitful to any newcomer, of any age, background, gender, party, philosophy, etc. I’m certain that Knoxville’s own freshman Congressman, Tim Burchett, is similarly learning and struggling with a great many and new things, too. You just don’t see or read about it, undoubtedly because he’s not under anywhere near the same scrutiny that she is....but also, because he’s been around long enough to respect the fact that he can’t know what he doesn’t know, has inherited / selected a seasoned staff of smart people, and whom he actually heeds their counsel to avoid including something embarrassing and/or laughably stupid in every other sentence.

    For these reasons, I still give her a wide degree of latitude, and the benefit of the doubt that she’s still perfectly capable of pulling it all together, or at least beginning that process, and in earnest. She’s done nothing close to approaching anything that will prove fatal, to this point, IMO.

    She’s very much like Trump in that you can’t dissociate and only accept certain pieces of her, while rejecting others - and the same things that she now struggles with as a member of Congress are exactly the things that got her elected to begin with. And as Trump has more than well proven, it’s incredibly difficult to argue the importance and necessity of taking a different approach, when the one you’ve used thus far has proven to be so successful. But he’s learned (yes, he absolutely has - but save your stupid comment as to how it remains to be maddeningly incomplete) and so will she. I think / hope. Time will tell.

    * Yes, I absolutely despise having admitted this, and in writing these words, but it’s the truth. She plays the game as well as anyone, and often, quite masterfully - which is one of the many reasons, besides the entirety of her philosophy - that I loathe her. I hate Kentucky and Alabama in much the same way, for many of the same reasons.
     
  12. JayVols

    JayVols Walleye Catchin' Moderator

    The entire Administration is green as it relates to being a politician. That was a positive for you in '16.

    They haven't exactly been Einstein's either.
     
  13. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    our kids won't see the benefits, maybe their kids. more of generations beyond that. that's something that doesn't get said because it furthers apathy. just like admitting the global economy can't possibly shift in 12 years is not said.

    it all matters, we have to do it, but it will not be something we reap the benefits of ourselves.

    it's 4th dimensional socialism, and conservatives smell it even through time. doesn't mean it isn't 100% a problem that can end civilization as we know it...
     
  14. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    I’ve yet to see any exampled evidence that it is even a viable political philosophy, won’t violate or eliminate core tenants of democracy and/or liberty itself, or could be most preferred, much less best.

    That some have become more brazen in espousing it, and in fact are clamoring for more and further of it, will not save them from this inevitable conclusion, not matter how delayed or circuitous the path.

    As Trump correctly said, “The United States will never be a socialist country.”, and to which I agree without either hesitation or equivocation.

    It has been so long and slowly implemented to this point to have largely escaped notice. Having dipshits saying it aloud - much less trying to have it inserted into national platforms and marching in support of it - is probably the single best thing that I, and anyone who opposes it, could have hoped for.

    I should be helping them to better organize and display their nonsense, or at least handing out water to their demonstrators. Anything for the cause, Comrade.
     
  15. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    I’m for all of those things - who isn’t?

    I’m not for the United States, and it’s tax-paying citizenry, footing the world’s bill in correcting it - and particularly, when there was no certainty, much less a guarantee, that such would prove even partially useful.
     
  16. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    I agree, however, I’m going to remember this post. Forever.

    Fair warning.
     
  17. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    Entirely fair, valid, agreed, and best, true.
     
    JayVols likes this.
  18. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    this is why the GOP uses an elephant. and the Dems use an ass. this is the order of things.
     
  19. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    why do you suppose "socialism" as however you or any other American may define it, is becoming less taboo of a term and more popular? I have some guesses, partly of a semantics nature.

    but what do you think?
     
  20. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    Luckily, the rest of the nations involved has since pledged additional funds to replace those that the United States had agreed to provide, but which Trump later rescinded.

    Is this correct, IP?

    Which countries replaced the US’ money, by increasing their pledged amount?

    I’m sure that many must have done so - due to the critical nature of this global crisis - but I don’t specifically recall seeing exactly which other members of the global community stepped up to do so. Do you know which countries did, after Trump pulled it?
     

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