POLITICS 2020 Election

Discussion in 'Politicants' started by CardinalVol, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    Look, I’m just going to tell you that you are wrong, on both counts. You don’t have to believe or agree with me, and I won’t at all mind if you don’t.

    The last issue on earth that Dems want to talk about is border security. They don’t want to do anything about it, but they damned sure don’t want to be forced to directly say so. Neither do the Republicans, but there’s no Democrat that’s making them eat a shit sandwhich over it, as Trump is forcing the Dems to do. Choosing to bet the farm on a political strategy that explicitly places a higher allegiance to illegal immigrants over the best interests of the country and Americans is not a winning formula. You can think that it is. You can want it to be. You can hope that it’s true.

    It isn’t. In fact, it’s a surprisingly stupid idea, particularly from the party of the self-styled super-smart and enlightened.

    And Trump is masterfully forcing them to not only face it, but to choose, and hanging a millstone around their necks in that process. Some smart Dem is going to wake up at some point and realize that this argument has done far worse and more lasting damage to their brand than any compromise on the wall could have ever caused to occur. But then, the Dems are so desperate for that population, and the promise of those votes, that they can’t allow it to be curtailed in the slightest, or even threatened.

    And that, my friend, is exactly Trump’s point.

    If you truly want to believe that the Dems have the higher ground on this issue, and the Dems themselves agree with you....they shouldn’t budge, right?

    Any concession or capitulation would be too great, correct?

    Let’s watch and see what happens over the next few days, and see how your theory plays out.
     
  2. tvolsfan

    tvolsfan Chieftain

    I’m interested in seeing President National Emergency declaring a National Emergency.
     
    JayVols likes this.
  3. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    correction, 60 billion might.

    assuming the 55 miles of barrier in this deal is added to the existing barriers, there will be 1,319 miles to go. at the cost of this deal, that would be about 40 billion to finish, or about 2 NASAs worth. Or about 3 aircraft carriers.
     
  4. Unimane

    Unimane Kill "The Caucasian"


    Perhaps the Democrats should just let him run unopposed and save themselves the embarrassment of running against such an unbeatable candidate.

    This thing hasn't even begun to get ratcheted up. Unfortunately, I see 2020 as very ugly and more chaotic than the retched 2016 race, unless the Democrats can find a person to sell a "Hope and Change" type of message above the filth Trump will sure spew. Beto is one of the few who have that possibility, but he is fairly green and probably isn't ready yet.

    Trump has about as distinct a floor and ceiling as any candidate I've ever seen. He's so intentionally polarizing, there are votes he can count on no matter what and those he can't no matter what. I think there's a general weariness with his antics and a number of those in the middle would readily fall behind a candidate who presents a sort of Warren G. Harding "Return to Normalcy" modern day edition.
     
  5. Unimane

    Unimane Kill "The Caucasian"

    Don't forget maintenance and the cost to man it for however long it exists.

    I still maintain he doesn't really give a shit about the wall. In fact, he might prefer it not to be built, at all, since it, in his opinion, works as a wedge issue he can exploit right up until the election. In fact, he said as much to the Mexican president.
     
  6. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    that's padded in, to the limited extent I can given no concrete plans of any sort
     
  7. CardinalVol

    CardinalVol Uncultured, non-diverse mod

    Wedge issues are the best political issues. We know this by now.
     
  8. kmf600

    kmf600 Energy vampire

    So you're apposed strictly because of financial reasons?
     
  9. NorrisAlan

    NorrisAlan Founder of the Mike Honcho Fan Club

    This might work, but it will have to be done lightly, not with a heavy hand. After talking with my parents about this, and reading this article:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/science...y-not-poverty-motivates-trump-support/558674/

    I am not sure there is a way to 'return to normalcy' for many of the white voters. They feel marginalized, not economically (though there is some of that), but more culturally and socially. My parents feel like Super-PC attitudes are blaming everything on them as white people, that they are being told they are stupid and that the world will be better when they just flat out die. And that is not something that is easy to handle politically. Trump is just the head of this infection that is gripping 1/3 of our country (or more). The country is changing way too fast for their tastes and that is why Trumps "Make America Great Again" rhetoric strikes so hard with them. Where as you and I might think "Wait, America is great. We are still the greatest country in the world and only getting better", they see it as "Gay marriage! Atheism! The White Minority! Robots!" It is all too much for some. They are not necessarily racists, or homophobic. It is just all coming at them at one time and it is too much to bear.

    And policy will not help this one bit. The Dems need to get someone out there that is charismatic, isn't seen as some SJW that is going to want to change the culture even more, and can calm the people, assure them everything is going to be OK without being condescending.
     
  10. NorrisAlan

    NorrisAlan Founder of the Mike Honcho Fan Club

    For me, it is mostly efficacy. Without the threat of lethal force, I don't think a wall will do jack shit to keep people out.
     
  11. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    no, ecological as well. And the huge amount of imminent domain for no real public benefit.

    expensive, ecologically damaging, ineffective solution to a problem that isn't critical, and an abuse of imminent domain for a project with no real benefit.

    Also, the POTUS himself has admitted swaths of the border can't be walled due to natural rivers and geology, so the idea of walling the whole border is literally a farce

    there are better and cheaper ways to improve security of the border.
     
  12. Ssmiff

    Ssmiff Went to the White House...Again

    let me know when a problem is critical enough to address. I don't get sent a list
     
  13. vols4sure

    vols4sure Member

    With advancing technology (sensors, drones, etc), I truly believe a barrier such as steel slats would keep out the vast majority of illegal immigration. Drugs, true criminals, etc., yes it would make it more difficult for them but they will always find a way. The question I have is whether we truly want to keep out illegal immigration from an economic standpoint. Ideally, I would say we stop illegal immigration and then make it much easier to get in this country via legal immigration but I realize this is tougher said than done for a host of reasons.
     
  14. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    I thought you were opposed to the wall?

    This isn’t how you express opposition to the wall.
     
  15. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    Sorry, but I’ve been repeatedly assured that the best way to eliminate racism is, in fact, more but different racism.

    And that social justice is or some in society, but not all.

    And that the protection of some rights requires the abolition or subduction of others.

    I’m positive that this is correct.
     
  16. TennTradition

    TennTradition Super Moderator

    If we want the workers then we need to legalize their temporary worker status and handle it the right way.

    Instead we let them come in because we need them but we won’t admit it nor put systems in place to properly handle it.
     
  17. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    Your plan works perfectly well, and is not lost on the Dems - they know how to effect this change, but they also know that it’s so wildly unpopular as to render it impossible.

    Or, as I call it: The exact point of a democracy.

    It’s almost like we’ve passed laws limiting the amount of immigrants to receive each year, and instead of the Democrats working to adjust those existing laws, via the legislative process allowed by our democracy, they prefer to simply ignore them, and to have unfettered and unchecked immigration, instead.

    I can’t fathom how Trump’s opposition to this practice has so strongly resonated with so many, and who also don’t care one whit for him...but who can still admit that he’s exactly right, on this issue.
     
  18. NorrisAlan

    NorrisAlan Founder of the Mike Honcho Fan Club

    How is a drone or a sensor going to physically stop someone from climbing over the fence? This is my concern. Oh, you will know someone is crossing, but then what? You then have to have someone there to arrest them anyway, in which case the wall was completely unnecessary.

    Barriers are necessary in some parts, I agree. The biggest issue is the idea of a coast to coast wall, which is ludicrous.
     
  19. TennTradition

    TennTradition Super Moderator

    The drone flies over and sprays them with Ebola.
     
  20. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    climate change, health care, global economic inequality, and mastering the solar system. we have 1 to 4 centuries of a window to improve ourselves or recede back to a less advanced civilization.

    imo.
     

Share This Page