Here's How A Real Coach Handles Adversity.

Discussion in 'Vols Football' started by hatvol96, Dec 2, 2011.

  1. Jewbaccah

    Jewbaccah New Member

    I can downgrade from ace if it appeases but he is not bad at recruiting...the entitlement I am sensing here for recruits at UT is highly overestimated...kids really do not give a shit...you have to have a guy who can sale in the new college landscape...Dooley is at least good at that part of the game...Saban agrees...
     
  2. cotton

    cotton Stand-up Philosopher

    I don't know about recruiting rankings, but let me ask you this: do you see him recruitng better than Saban? Do you see him recruiting better than Miles? Do you see him recruiting better than the guys at Georgia, , or Florida, or South Carolina, or Auburn, or Arkansas? Missouri or A&M?

    If you don't see him recruiting appreciably better than those guys, do you see him out coaching them and beating those guys with players worse than theirs?
     
  3. Jewbaccah

    Jewbaccah New Member

    I think we should just agree to disagree...we agree he sucks as a coach otherwise...
     
  4. Unimane

    Unimane Kill "The Caucasian"

    So, he's worthless if he can't recruit better than Saban? Or, Miles, who can pull in 75% of his class from Louisiana and have NC talent? Dooley could arguably recruit better than those guys and still have less overall talent.

    I mean, I hate to break it to people, but we could pay someone $10 million a year and we still won't be in the top 5 every year in recruiting. I doesn't mean Dooley sucks as a recruiter. He's doing fine on that part of the job. It's the other shit that's the problem. Plus, being in the top ten of recruiting is fine, anyway. The difference in the top 10, outside of a top 2-3, is practically irrelevant.
     
  5. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    There's some reverse engineering going on here, I think.

    Whereas the evaluation should go: Can't break the Top 10, can't fill our most glaring needs, despite enormous advantages afforded him by the position be holds (as Justin said, facilities, money, fan base, etc.) = (natural, evidence based conclusion) shitty recruiter

    Instead, it's this: feel the pressure against him, feel that he may still be the best coach we could have, and must argue that signing Top 12-15 classes makes him an "ace" in order to defend him / find a silver lining somewhere......but it just doesn't fly this way.

    If I told you guys where his recruiting efforts would lead - but if I took his name / current position out of it - no way that his results have been anything other than mediocre, at absolute best.
     
  6. cotton

    cotton Stand-up Philosopher

    I think you've stumbled upon it. We need a guy who can either out recruit or out coach some of the best guys at the best spots in the nation. It's a tough friggin' neighborhood, and we need a bad ass.

    Do we have him?
     
  7. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    As a counter to this rather rampant sentiment among Vol fans, Saban has been doing rather well at recruiting without Dooley. Which means either Saban is just an absolute master at finding people who can "recruit" and putting them on his staff... or, and this is a possibility, people want to play for winners.

    I find it hard to believe that Dooley orchestrated Saban's recruiting classes at LSU... especially considering Saban's recruiting sans Dooley.
     
  8. Jewbaccah

    Jewbaccah New Member

    If Dooley gets lucky and wins lets say 10 games he will have the number 1 class in the nation this time next year...He is not a bad ass cotton because he is horrible at winning games...this is his best time of the year no games no losing just him selling...this is his sweet spot...let him do it unless we have that bad ass lined up...then fire his ass as soon as these players are stuck with their commitments...someone said players can leave after signing day if we change coaches...is this true?
     
  9. Unimane

    Unimane Kill "The Caucasian"

    False, his recruiting has been fine and has been subjectively top ten as it is. It's a fairly arbitrary rating to put Dooley's class exactly at #13. Looking at the rankings from last year. You're telling me Georgia at #5 was any better than our class? Margainally, at best.

    I don't know why it's so difficult for anyone here to give the guy a smidgen of credit in an analysis. I mean, it's ok, you can still say he's a shitty coach even if you don't say he's not 100% evil.
     
  10. gorockytop101

    gorockytop101 New Member

    Don't know if O'Brien is game-changing, but I think he'll be solid.

    I definitely get what you're saying, though. There's a lack of elite talent coming in. My hope is that this changes in the near future since relationships have been made with recruits for 2-3 years.
     
  11. Unimane

    Unimane Kill "The Caucasian"

    Well, it's easy to say we want the best recruiter, coach, person, etc., etc. I understand that you can't go looking at a rummage sale for your coach like we did for Dooley, but you can't just pull out the checkbook and the championships will follow. You want a guy better than Saban? Who? I don't want us to go dumpster diving, but I don't want us turning into Don Quixote University by constantly chasing windmills for some mythical ideal of a coach. My expectation is to have a program that competes for championships on a regular basis and I'm willing to have patience for the guy who can do this.
     
  12. hatvol96

    hatvol96 Well-Known Member

    In two years, people will look at Dooley's first full class and what he added to Kiffin's early entrants and realize there are six or seven SEC teams with better players in those classes. The wild overrating of Justin Worley, who will prove to be more BJ Coleman 2.0, vastly inflated this past class.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2011
  13. tidwell

    tidwell Chieftain

    Honestly can't decide which of these I think is less likely.
     
  14. hatvol96

    hatvol96 Well-Known Member

    Arkansas has several future pros on their roster right now. Petrino is recruiting at a level there that Dooley is struggling to keep up with despite the fact he has the equivalent of a 30 yard head start in a 100 yard dash.
     
  15. cotton

    cotton Stand-up Philosopher

    And do you expect to do this with somebody who can't out recruit or out coach his competition?
     
  16. Beechervol

    Beechervol Super Moderator

    Welcome to the board Volguy. Post early and often.
     
  17. Jewbaccah

    Jewbaccah New Member

    ok so fire him...Tenacious D were you just [uck fay]ing around earlier or do you think Hart is close to firing him?
     
  18. hatvol96

    hatvol96 Well-Known Member

    Probably because most of us around here have seen the incredible level of moronic coach worship among the majority of the fanbase and realize allowing them even the slightest bit of quarter just makes it worse. We just fired a basketball coach who the only people on the planet who didn't seem to comprehend was an utter piece of trash were the Orange Overall crowd. Those are the same idiots who act as if Phil Fulmer was doing charity work coaching UT and we were fortunate he never ran off to the NFL. The only way to get that crowd to face reality is good, old fashioned character assassination. Period. Destroy all remnants of positives about the target and they have nothing left to hold to. That eventually allows for the type of shift that ran Fulmer out of town. Doodles needs to have been fired a week ago, but we do things slowly at UT. Undermining him at every turn makes it easy to have the skids greased when NC State runs them out of the Georgia Dome in the opener next year.
     
  19. Unimane

    Unimane Kill "The Caucasian"

    There are at least 10 guys in the last class that were more highly regarded than Worley, who is getting recruited over by Peterman anyway. Only the reddest of Vols wildly overrated Worley. This last class is much better than you are giving it credit for.
     
  20. hatvol96

    hatvol96 Well-Known Member

    Come on, Cotton. We just have to be patient. Saban probably only has another 10 years or so on the sidelines. I bet Georgia is just chomping at the bit to hire the next Ray Goff. We just have to hold tight and hope everyone else falls back to us.
     

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