Incarceration in US

Discussion in 'Politicants' started by Tenacious D, Jun 3, 2018.

  1. Beechervol

    Beechervol Super Moderator

    Reminds me of my high school drug lockdown , they told us that anyone with tobacco on them at school (not in car) would be suspended the next day. There were so many busted they couldn't suspend all of them because they would have to close the school for too low of a percentage of attendance.
     
    justingroves likes this.
  2. Joseph Brant

    Joseph Brant Airbrush Aficionado

    What percentage of Corrections officers are AFSCME members, since we're playing games?
     
  3. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    I don’t think that the unionized correctional officers is the problem.

    And I hate every Union, ever.
     
  4. chef65

    chef65 Contributor

    It's fascinating how the inmates run the show in places like Venezuela, Peru, etc. I was shocked to learn that many of the gang bosses and their minions have firearms and regularly exchange lead.
     
  5. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    Giving all of this some more thought, my point is this: there has to be a better way, and for all involved - the victims, the convicted and society.

    I don’t know what it is, but I’m pretty sure it isn’t anything close to what we’ve now got, and are doing.
     
    NorrisAlan and chef65 like this.
  6. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    For starters - you’ve got people who are in prison with nothing to do, and who literally beg for something to do. You don’t have to pay them a dime, or next to nothing, and most simply volunteer.

    We don’t have anything that they can safely do, or a way to both give something back to society AND be better prepared to not return to a life of crime, once released?

    No schools need painting? No libraries need to be built? No shelters built for the homeless? Has anyone asked Groves how easy it is to find semi-skilled tradespeople, nowadays? And he’s not only hiring, but will also give them a shot.

    I know that we want to do right by the victims of their crimes - and we should be - but what about doing right by potential future victims of their crimes, and that will likely result from releasing them back on the streets with even less prospects of success, and more dire circumstances than before?

    And, I’ll say it, at what point do we need to do right by the criminal, once they’ve paid their debt and are supposedly square with the house again?
     
  7. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    You made a claim, not me. I'm trying to understand how a broke-[penis] union is running this show.
     
  8. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    I'ts very simple, as you alluded to earlier: what is the purpose of prison?

    Or another way of saying it: what effect should the prison sentence have on an inmate? Is this pure punishment, or rehabilitative? If you get sent to prison for 15 years, is your life ruined, or just reset/reborn?

    As it is, our system encourages further deviancy, further criminal behavior, etc. But if you try to change that, the reaction is that you're "soft" and that it should be a punishment.
     
  9. kptvol

    kptvol Super Moderator

    I mean it has to at least be some percentage punishment.
     
  10. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    Of course, and I’m not arguing that it shouldn’t be punitive.

    But at some point, it’s more about vengeance than even punishment, and definitely nothing rehabilitative.
     
  11. kptvol

    kptvol Super Moderator

    Well there’s a certain threshold to be crossed whereupon you are no longer deserving of rehabilitation. Obviously tough to draw that line.
     
  12. kptvol

    kptvol Super Moderator

    I still find it hard to grasp that someone could leave prison and just decide that life on the outside sucks so bad they might as well go back in the joint.

    The handful of people I’ve met and discussed the issue that have been imprisoned or even in jail for a night felt exactly the opposite. Admittedly none of those were maximum security types.
     
  13. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    Perfect point - watching those shows, you also see many people who have no obvious path to ever being reacclimatized to society, no matter how many courses they take, how contrite they sometimes appear, how long they’re locked up, etc.

    But despite never being allowed to return to society, they are still humans, have worth and possess at least the potential for good.
     
  14. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    I don’t have to spend one night in jail in order to be afraid of it.

    I fear that I’m drifting too close to seeming as if I don’t think that anyone should ever be held accountable for their crimes, or be sufficiently punished for them, and that’s not at all my aim.

    I infinitely prefer a world where no one would need to be incarcerated. But absent that fairy tale, I think we a world where we at least work to prevent its reoccurrence, and where the incarcerated have a chance to succeed once they’ve done their time, is possible, can be realized and that we should try to achieve it.
     
  15. CardinalVol

    CardinalVol Uncultured, non-diverse mod

    For the last two years we've used inmates from the Blount county jail to mow fields and keep up the park. Only certain people qualify for the program and they can they can reduce sentences for work. And they do have to work. If someone goofs off or doesn't do the job well they don't get credit and can lose privledge for the program.

    They've done a good job for us.
     
  16. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    Agreed. Justice and revenge and vengeance are not the same.
     
  17. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    I got a personal story that I may share on the mod board. Suffice it to say, sometimes someone who is "troubled" can be turned into something much more sinister from years inside. And that original sentence was to be "tough" and "teach a lesson." Oh, a lesson was taught, but not the one anyone wanted.
     
  18. Ssmiff

    Ssmiff Went to the White House...Again

    The mod board?
    I have a friend that was murdered today at his gym in Nashville. UT grad. Killed by a former employee with a hatchet. There should be no incarceration.
     
  19. chef65

    chef65 Contributor

    A major component of this conversation, especially with respect to punishment, deterralence, and what criminals "deserve," is the question of whether or not humans actually have free will.
     
  20. GahLee

    GahLee Director of Conspiracy Theories, 8th Maxim

    Jesus man, that is awful. Hate to hear it.
     

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