I think we have it so good as a society and we view it through our glasses. Bombings and violence is just a part of their daily lives. Violence isn't a deterrence to them. They're not like us and that's okay. They keep their stuff in their sandbox, and we're good. If it crosses the line, we take out the leadership and come home. No nation building or any of the other bullshit a lot of people make money off of in the name building a democracy.
I think 1) you are ignoring the level of violence we are tolerating and carrying 2) overestimating the amount of violence an Iranian or pre-invasion Iraqi was experiencing, generally. We are all far more similar than different.
Did we fail to install democracy? I think it is persisting so far. They just don't agree with our military actions.
Is it that they don't agree with our military actions or that they don't want us standing in their yard and picking a fight with their neighbor? I'm not sure that they give a shit if we bomb Iran ... just don't yell over the fence and tell them to [uck fay] off. Because they have to continue to live there.
So they shot down a civilian plane, after bombing US targets, in retaliation for killing a terrorist responsible for many lives. Ritards
I don't know. Feel like there has been a whole, whole lot of issues and once we do leave it will come crumbling down. That's just me though.
Although, Suleimani basically ok'ed the entire council in Iraq so I'm sure they, along with Mahdi, have some loyalty to him. I say that to say that you may be right.
He has organized, lead, directed and overseen the killing and maiming of thousands of Americans, and represented a clear, present and continuous danger to both countless more and American interests. Best, he was in an active theatre of war, again, directing, ordering and overseeing further actions against the US. Have you already forgotten exactly who it was that was just threatening our embassy, only a few days ago? It was Iranians, under Soleimani‘s command. This was, again, yet another act of war. As inconvenient as it may be to the Democratic narrative, his many actions are - sorry, were - acts of war, formally declared or not. Not only did the US have the authority to defend itself, and specifically in killing Soleimani - his acts of war have easily provided the basis for our attacking Iran, proper, and which they’ve been extremely fortunate in our exercising such remarkable restraint, at least thus far. Thus far. You want to deny the obviousness of his non-Iranian state terrorist actions in decades of attacking Americans and American interests - ostensibly, because you do not want, and would undoubtedly oppose, our retaliating directly against Iran for his informal non-State actions. But then, in the same breath, you want to argue the exact opposite - that he’s singularly a state actor, and that our killing him amounts to an “assassination” and an act of war against Iran. If it’s (seemingly) bad for Trump, he’s a state actor. If it’s protectively good and insulating for Iran, then you want him to be a non-state actor...even though this requires your willfully ignoring their sponsoring of terrorist acts against our people and our interests, and that such not only invites them to continue, but with impunity. By this logic, all Iran would need to do is to take other terrorist groups - Hezbollah, Hamas, the PLO, etc. - and make them Iranian generals, so as to give them the same Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free card that both you and Iran (foolishly) believed Soleimani had, and which should also allow them to the be out of the US’ reach. The days of our country using cyclical shenanigans such as this to justify turning a blind eye to the indiscriminate killing of Americans, and of their terroristic acts versus our interests are over, and will remain to be, so long as Trump is President. Live to love it or die hating it - but Trump is 100% correct in refusing to continue to also ignore it, as other Presidents have done, and as the Democrats would do again, in the event we’re stupid enough to elect another one. If Iran sees our killing Soleimani as an act of war against a state-actor, then let them declare it. They needn’t wait on having received our permission to do so. Let them do it.
Pretty good response overall. Dig at Obama was inappropriate and in opposition to uniting the country. Particularly interested in the NATO engagement aspect.
why doesn't trump then declare war, by the same logic? you have crafted a strawman. I said he was a pos and a murderer, but also a state actor for Iran. you then twist it all up and act as if I said he wasn't associated with Iran, and wasn't committing acts against America. Why? Because you don't want to have to untangle why the US has yet again committed an act of war without a declaration of any kind from congress, why we assassinated a state actor, or how Iraq is a theater of war if ISIS is utterly defeated. You have an untenable set of facts and yet think the picture is crystal clear. I see a consistent set of facts and only see the familiar haze and murk of the last 20 to 40 years of involvement in western Asia.
Are you saying you think they accidentally shot down the plane, or that they attacked themselves as some kind of 4D chess move?
It's really more tangled than any of us can succinctly explain here. There were Quds forces routinely in Afghanistan when we were there and they were helping ( I guess) to defeat the Taliban. I saw them in Kabul and Kandahar. No idea what their role was there but they weren't fighting us I don't think. EDIT: This was in like 2001-3 timeframe if I remember correctly.
here's an attempt at describing that tangle succinctly: these are bullshit nations superficially overlaying complex tribal and ethnic identities. The nations serve as vehicles of dominion over the people in their borders, but have little depth in terms of individual identity compared to tribe and religion. therefore, nation building occurs not as a "rebuilding" but as primary succession in ecology. it's essentially a blank slate because nationhood just doesn't mean the same thing there and maybe never will for various historical reasons. these national concepts were assigned by foreign powers decades ago, not by the locals.
