Mueller Time: The Indictment Thread

And the first contestant is.......


Paul Manafort. Come on Down....

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/30/politics/paul-manafort-russia-investigation-surrender/index.html

 

Rick Gates has been told to turn himself in as well

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Better be ironclad, because this is going to be painful for the nation.

 

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/p...es-asked-to-surrender-to-feds/article/2638947

 

I'm told having a baby is painful....


....but the end result justifies the pain.

 

What about passing stones?

 

They should be outlawed by the Geneva Convention. Nothing justifies torture.

 

I hate this for our Nation. But democracy is not a pretty thing, and I would rather have these kinds of scandals (real or imagined) and have them out in the open than live in some autocratic nightmare like North Korea or China.

 

100% Agreement.

Wherever the facts lead and whoever they lead to, they all should have to answer for any crime.

 

The actual 12 count indictment:

https://www.justice.gov/file/1007271/download

 

Summary?

 

-Conspiracy against United States
-Money laundering
-Unregistered foreign agent
-False FARA statements
-Obstruction of justice through false statements

 

Looks like it is just against their business dealings, and nothing to do with the campaign or administration.

 

Other than the years of malfeasance overlapping with his time as campaign manager, yes.*


*So far

 

That's a reach, man. I'd be indicted with the level of power Mueller can swing in this investigation.

 

Reach?

It's a statement of fact. I was agreeing with you.

 

Also revealed today:

One of Trump's foreign policy advisors during the campaign, George Papadopolous, pleads guilty to making false statements to the FBI.

From CNN.com-
George Papadopolous, former foreign policy adviser to the Trump campaign, pleaded guilty for making false statements to the FBI, according to records unsealed today.

Papadopolous lied to FBI agents “about the timing, extent and nature of his relationships and interactions with certain foreign nationals whom he understood to have close connections with senior Russian government officials,” according to the complaint.

 

It's clear that Manafort and associates had deep ties to the pro-Russian Ukrainian government so no real news there. Yes it looks like there were illegal actions with regard to payment and they'll likely get nailed for that. But that isn't collusion.

What I do think should concern us all are things like

1) Carter Page's random inclusion as a likely foreign policy advisor. Page was being groomed by Russian intelligence whether he knew it or not and I doubt Manafort just woke up one morning and decided he should add Page to the campaign. It was suggested to him by the guys who were really paying his bills via the Ukrainian gov't. This was about building influence and ....

2) It was working. It is no coincidence that the anti-Russian positions re:Ukraine were gutted from the platform at the Republican National Convention under Paul Manafort's campaign watch. Multiple advisors had ties to Russia/Ukraine and Russia got the soft stance thy wanted. Amazing how that works.

This is why Trump's hubris about this pisses me off. They got close to him. They influenced his advisors. And he doesn't seem to give a shit and just wants to mouth off about his own lack of collusion. He needs to be concerned about this and realize Putin isn't his buddy.

Yes there could be deeper collusion. Especially in some of the data games and voter registration issues. But I seriously doubt Trump will ever be connected and it is unlikely he even knew. It will surprise me if there is anything that comes of this that brings down his Presidency.

But it is obviously concerning - except to Trump.

 

We're just getting started.

In reference to the Papadopolous plea, how did the FBI know he was lying about what was said in meetings? Tells me they know what was said. How? Don't know.

I'm on record that I thought money laundering would be what brings Trump down.

I don't buy the Trump being unlikely to know. Too many connections. Will he get stuck with that? I have no idea.

 

How? Phones.