Prager: Single Payer Healthcare

Discussion in 'The Thunderdome' started by Tenacious D, Apr 13, 2017.

  1. Volst53

    Volst53 Super Moderator

    Prestige and easy capital is the reason of the huge price increases.
     
  2. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    I think one solution would be to put the schools partially on the hook for loans their students receive.
     
  3. Volst53

    Volst53 Super Moderator

    Sounds like that would really hurt poor and minority students
     
  4. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    Elaborate on this, because I saw several charts where the higher the spikes in tuition, the less the state paid.

    So is it just the state shorting the colleges money, and the colleges grabbing that shortfall - and lots more - from the students themselves, because the Feds are backing the dough? Have the states essentially incentivized the schools to do this, and now it's sort of out of control, because colleges seem flush with cash, of late?

    All sincerely asked - I have no idea, other than supposition and inference.
     
  5. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    I agree, but guess that they should really seek to actually help their poor and minority students, beyond just tipping he svale to get them admitted, and enrolled for more time than it takes to get newly updated pics on their brochures and the header of their school's homepage.
     
  6. ptclaus98

    ptclaus98 Contributor

  7. dc4utvols

    dc4utvols Contributor

    Well banks said "no way" until gubmint subsidized the loans and guaranteed payback. Students cant default on those loans. Allow defaults and bankruptcies like normal and the problem will solve itself.

    Less loans, lower costs.

    More students will have to work their way through school. Others will save up and go later. Some will not make the sacrifices and will not attend at all. It wil be "unfair" for somebody but it will never be fair for everyone. Utopia doesn't exist.
     
  8. kptvol

    kptvol Super Moderator

    Couldn't you just say that if you want your institution to have tuition be covered by one of these loans that you have to agree to a percentage maximum for annual tuition increases?
     
  9. dc4utvols

    dc4utvols Contributor

    Tuition increases are approved by some state board that is under the control of the legislatures. Legislatures could cap the rate to inflation just like SS COLAs. That still going to see huge increases over time and your 529 must make better than inflation or you are going to be short.
     
  10. CardinalVol

    CardinalVol Uncultured, non-diverse mod

    Pros to single payor -

    1. Everyone has it
    2. Insurance companies go away

    Cons -

    1. Cost
    2. Demand of doctors
    3. Responsibility
    4. Fraud

    With where we are, I'm pretty much a proponenet of a two tier single payor/direct pay model. If you want to use the SP, have at it, but leave the option to opt out.

    I also think you have to hold the populous responsible as well. Fines for no shows (I'm sure kpt would nod his head up and down here), require co-pays ($5 if you must), and give incentives/credits to people who use the system less and/or are healthier. And if you do things that increase likelihood of being unhealthy, you pay a premium. Of course cosmetic, non-essential is not covered.

    This is the pretty basic idea of what I would prefer right now.
     
  11. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    I agree with this completely, but to a point. A very distant point, but a point nonetheless. For example, the world needs art and artists, and while there are damned few jobs for "artist" in the market, a school should neither be placed in a predicament of risking punishment or refusing to offer degrees in art, simply for fear that a matriculated artist won't be able to file a W-2 within two years of graduating.

    But there has to be a limit to that, too, and however distant it may again be - because Tennessee shouldn't be churning out 2k artists a year, and who paid the same amount as an accountant or engineering major.

    Again, I am 1000% for developing a system by which schools are held accountable to produce graduates who make positive contributions to society, and which is best and first measured by their ability to provide for themselves in the plying of the trade / craft.
     
  12. lylsmorr

    lylsmorr Super Moderator

    Amen brother
     
  13. dc4utvols

    dc4utvols Contributor

    It gets more and more complicated the more we rely on gubmint. Hey let the kids pay their own way.

    Here is actual advice I gave to a HS junior:

    If you dont have the money or arent sure what you want to do then get a trade.

    He is good at math and was thinking about engineering but is an excellent artist and his passion is art. When someone else is paying there is pressure to get out quick and do things you arent really interested in.

    So I said with a trade you can save up for college. Then there is no pressure to do engineering since you wont be on mom and dads dime. And if you wish you can major in both and take your time to get the degrees. If you just get an art degree then it limits your options and could be financially unstable. As I put it, art is a feast or famine kind of degree. Some get the feast while most get the famine. I said with a trade you can skip the whole starving artist bit while developing your brand/following. If your art takes off and makes you money great but if not you have a viable means to put food on the table while pursuing your passion.
     
  14. Volst53

    Volst53 Super Moderator

    It doesn't help that they can get into schools over their ability and then find themselves sinking
     
  15. lylsmorr

    lylsmorr Super Moderator

    I can't remember the exact numbers, but federal aid had increased with college tuition - if not a little bit more. The problem is a huge percentage of that growth is loans, and not scholarship type money.
     
  16. lylsmorr

    lylsmorr Super Moderator

    And I don't blame a kid for going out of their league. It's a great opportunity. It can end up hurting a lot, though
     
  17. lylsmorr

    lylsmorr Super Moderator

    I think online programs and large scale distance education will help the problem of skyrocketing tuition
     
  18. Volst53

    Volst53 Super Moderator

    No but colleges are under pressure to take reaches on certain students to fulfill quotas. That can put both in a bad spot
     
  19. ptclaus98

    ptclaus98 Contributor

    Have you ever done an online class? It's a nightmare. My friend, who has a work ethic so tireless she turned my lazy ass into a hard worker, gave up on hers halfway through. Now she was juggling a full time job and taking care of a child that wasn't hers on top of that, but the curriculum and workload was twice what I had in my classes, with half the time to do it in. I've had bad experiences with them, too, but that's more laziness than anything else. I think the community college system doesn't get enough credit, because it's seen as "settling". My biggest mistake was going to MTSU. For the major I ended up in, I was better off going to community college, and after that, deciding whether or not to join the workforce or move to a bachelors. When I was 18 years old I had no perspective on what was the right choice for me, I just had a bunch of adults pushing me towards the biggest university that would take me, and a bunch of friends going to big colleges, so that was all I knew to do.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2017
  20. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    That works too.
     

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