POLITICS President Trump: 100+ Mornings After (Term 1 Complete)

Discussion in 'Politicants' started by IP, Apr 30, 2017.

  1. kmf600

    kmf600 Energy vampire

    This sucks that I can't figure out how to make these show up
     
  2. TennTradition

    TennTradition Super Moderator


    Beyond the absolute crap he’s peddling here, the fact that only one of these women was even born outside the US just makes it that much more ridiculous.
     
    tvolsfan likes this.
  3. Unimane

    Unimane Kill "The Caucasian"

    "Go back to your own country" is what a drunk redneck says on a viral video to people having a conversation in Spanish at Taco Bell and we all shake our heads at how stupid they are. He's also an idiot for not being able to keep his mouth shut on the Pelosi rift with the newcomers and let them tear each other down.
     
    tvolsfan likes this.
  4. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    I agree with this last bit.

    Mark it down, boys!
     
  5. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    So... racist?
     
  6. TennTradition

    TennTradition Super Moderator

    I didn’t take it as much racist as I did xenophobic. Though the racial angle is if you’re a person of color you must be from somewhere else.
     
  7. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    I don't see how it is xenophobic. They are US citizens.

    What xeno here is phobic, the US?
     
  8. TennTradition

    TennTradition Super Moderator

    I would think that it is xenophobic to see people of color and assume they couldn’t have been born in your country and that they should go back. The phobia isn’t in the reality it’s in the perception on his part.
     
  9. Unimane

    Unimane Kill "The Caucasian"

    Sounds like a textbook definition of racism if their color is used to make a determination about them.
     
    tvolsfan likes this.
  10. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    How do you know it was assumed they weren't born here? You are supposing that it would matter, when it may not. Many times, this sort of "go back to where you come from" is levied people who are certainly born here.
     
  11. TennTradition

    TennTradition Super Moderator

    It’s true that I am assuming that when people say go back to somewhere that they mistakenly believe they were born there - or find it convenient to believe that.
     
  12. TennTradition

    TennTradition Super Moderator

    Yeah I’m not making a strong point here because I’m not sure what I would really call it. When I think racism I think making conclusions about someone’s abilities (or inabilities) based on their race or using your power over someone based on race or disadvantaging an entire race based on policies. But this fell somewhere in the middle to me. You have three US citizens of color - two of which were born here.

    If you take it as ‘you people go back to where you’re from’ as IP was suggesting as in a general where your type of people are from then it’s easier to put a racist label on it. I didn’t really get the you people vibe.

    I mean if one of these women were, say, a white Muslim whose parents emigrated from eastern Europe it would be just as wrong but not exactly racist. What would you call it?
     
  13. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    Racism. Because I see racism, like any ism, as seeing, treating, or believing that someone will behave differently based on their race.

    Which is what this was. He didn't say Nancy should go back where she came from. He didn't say white progressive female democrats should go back where they came from (because they're clearly from here...). He picked those four.
     
    tvolsfan likes this.
  14. TennTradition

    TennTradition Super Moderator

    Who is the fourth? Did he specifically mention Pressley? I assumed he wasn’t referring to her.

    Did he believe they would act differently based on their race? I really didn’t get that from it. I took it that he felt it was rich that these people who he didn’t see as from the US were so intent on having a voice here. I took it more as a nationalistic your voice doesn’t belong here and your culture stinks anyway and is much worse than the one you’re trying to ‘fix’. That read much more nationalistic xenophobia to me than racism.

    I’m sure you guys and other people who know what you’re talking about on these issues will all identify it as racism and somebody will figure out how to explain it in a way that I might agree - but I’m not there at the present.
     
  15. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    He didn't specifically mention anyone, which is why every news outlet has taken it to mean the squad.

    He believes they are from another country, so yes, they behave like people... from another country. Based, not on the fact that they are from another country... but on their race.

    They are from the US. Their culture is the US. They are members of the United States Congress--presumably he knows that only citizens can be such. The only way that can therefore be xenophobia is if the phobia is to the United States.

    You've gaslighted yourself--I can't explain that away, that's something you have to solve for yourself.
     
    IP likes this.
  16. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    Out of curiosity, though... why wouldn't you have thought he was talking about Pressley?
     
  17. TennTradition

    TennTradition Super Moderator

    I don’t think it’s gaslighting I think it’s being specific with words. (Also it’s inoortant to be factually accurate here in that one of these women is not from the US - but ghebare all Americans)

    I don’t think any of the qualities he’s attaching here are limited to race but rather have everything to do with being foreign and different and not belonging here. When other cultures are also other races I suppose it’s hard to draw a sharp line between racism and xenophobia. It would be cleaner if one of this group was born of French parents and he could take that dig - but that isn’t the case.

    When the only quality of a race he’s attacking is being from another county and being different then that doesn’t feel like racism to me - that feels like xenophobia.
     
  18. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    That's not nationalism. Canada sucks is nationalism. This is a gross generalization of countries... based on... ? Based on? TT, based on?
     
  19. TennTradition

    TennTradition Super Moderator

    Because I was not aware of her or her parents being from another country or from a place Trump perceives to be another country (Puerto Rico - he’s made comments before that suggest it).

    When I read about him telling these folks to go back to the county they are from, I’m immediately associating that with those he likely sees as foreign - I believe that to be Omar (who isn’t from the US), AOC (family from PR), and Tlaib (born to Palestinian immigrants).
     
  20. TennTradition

    TennTradition Super Moderator

    He hates Puerto Rico due to the hurricane and a bunch of Puerto Rican’s just got arrested for corruption. I think that spearheaded the thought. Throwing in a a Palestinian government associates with the PLO and Somalia that is riddled with conflict and hunger isn’t also consistent with thinking these people don’t know what they are doing.

    But it’s not just nationalism. It’s a xenophobia he finds useful to his nationalistic agenda.

    What’s the difference between xenophobia and racism when the culture is a different race? To me he doesn’t see these people as far enough removed from their or their parents’ cultures to have become truly ‘American’. But without more evidence I choose to stop there. I don’t see the evidence that this is based on race rather than culture. I’m not sure it makes a difference to me other than the semantics of it. I wouldn’t find him telling a fifth generation Hispanic American from Chicago to go back to Mexico (because she has a Hispanic last name and an assertion that would only make sense as a racist assertion) any more offensive than I find his assertion that Tlaib go back to the Middle East (as a daughter of Palestinians) or even Omar (as an immigrant). They’re all wrong.
     

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