Scheming Tennessee

Discussion in 'Keith Hatfield Memorial Vols Hoops' started by Tenacious D, Jan 24, 2019.

  1. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    Can someone who knows basketball help me (someone who doesn’t know a damned thing, particularly about basketball) understand how opposing teams are scheming / playing Tennessee in the last 3 games or so (UF, Bama & Vandy), and which seem to be giving us so much trouble on both offense and defense?

    It’s most likely a multitude of different things, and may even be some combination of what our opponents are doing, what we’re doing to ourselves, or just stuff that’s happening and which is largely beyond any team’s direct control (eg a team or player just getting hot, a player getting cold, a lucky or bad bad break, etc.).

    But if there are specific schemes (eg playing zone, taking Admiral away, pick and roll plays, etc.) that a team is running against us, or common themes (eg packing inside to prevent Grant from going off, charging the rim to get either easy shots or our best guys in foul trouble, etc.) that you see happening, and which Tennessee seems to be struggling with, I’d appreciate knowing and better understanding what those things are.

    I’d rather be winning these games, than not. On one hand, I see Tennessee’s recent struggles as both necessary and beneficial, because they’ll then know better how to handle the same whenever future opponents attempt it.....but another piece of me sort of worries that teams are not only starting to figure us out, but are basically giving a book to others on how to beat us, and in exposing things that we simply won’t be able to overcome, if executed by the type of higher quality teams that we’ll see in March.

    And a bonus follow up:
    What’s wrong with Admiral, and how do we get him back on track?

    I’ll hang up and listen.

    GO VOLS!
     
  2. MettaWorldPeace

    MettaWorldPeace Contributor

    Spacing Tennessee out on defense is the way to go. I feel like Florida really exposed Tennessee when it comes to defending mismatches and isolation plays. It doesn't help matters that Tennessee's interior rotations are late and they ball watch on rebounding. Just my opinion, of course.

    As for AD, I think his struggles are mental. He works so hard that he gets frustrated when things do not go his way.

    All my incompetent opinions, though.
     
  3. NYY

    NYY Super Moderator

    Teams are spreading us out defensively because they know we have a pattern of switching all ball screens. That hurts with some easy penetration, kicks or skips when we switch. We should have hedged the hell out of Vandy's screens last night.

    There were times last night we had too much help defense. Pons got caught a couple times attacking the weak side rim when help was already at the front of the rim and allowing a wide open shot to a corner shooter.

    Rebounding right now is an issue with us because we aren't finding bodies when shots go up. We are athletic and long, but you can only go hip to hip on boards for so long before you start to lose on the roulette wheel.
     
  4. CardinalVol

    CardinalVol Uncultured, non-diverse mod

    I thought the biggest change came when we started backing off the ball when they got it to elbow. Stopped having to switch.

    What I didn't like was still double teaming late in shot clock. All the sudden 25 seconds of good defense went awry because how we're having to switch.
     
  5. Tar Volon

    Tar Volon Me Blog @RockyTopTalk.com

    I am not a hoops tactics guy, but even I saw this, and it was driving me crazy
     
  6. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    So, does spacing us out work best because we are better / more comfortable / more used to / prefer playing “team” defense, and not good at guarding in one-on-one matchups? So spacing us out takes the team / help out of it? And if another defender leaves their man to help on the defender getting beat on the one-on-one penetration, the driving player finds the open man the second defender just left for a wide open shot, or another opening to also drive in?

    I don’t understand anything about rotations, switches, why we rotate or switch, at all, much less how we can do either any differently or better.

    Also, and BTW, what is our best / primary defense, and which types of offenses are we best or least equipped to stop?

    Maybe the most important question is this - are our recent defensive lapses an issue which primarily originates from personnel or X’a & O’s....and can we fix them? For example, if our trouble is that we just don’t have defenders who are good enough for one-on-one defense, a change in scheme might be of some help, but not eliminate those physical limitations. Or, conversely, is our primary problem that we’ve got plenty of good athletes who can defend anyone, but we’re not able to do so because they’re not executing what they need to do in order to defend / stop them (eg switching, not hedging the screen* at the right time, place or in the right way)?

    I’m appreciating the education and in learning more.

    * I have no damned idea what this means, and only saw it in another post.
     
  7. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    And while I almost never know why players come in and out....am I the only one who found themselves wondering what Deacon was doing with the rotations last night?

    We started hot very early on, and then the next thing I knew, a bunch of subs came in and we immediately went cold. And the substitutions / combinations seemed unusual / odd (which to me, is no standard to gauge them)...like Derrick Walker and Fulk were out there together.

    It doesn’t help that I think that Barnes is quick to yank someone out for not doing something he wants / expects, and that the reason for this may not always be easily discerned, especially for me.

    Am I imagining this, or if not, what was Barnes likely trying to do?
     
  8. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    I don't know, but I know Walker should be getting some of Fulkerson's minutes.
     
    YankeeVol likes this.
  9. JT5

    JT5 Super Moderator

    If I see another late shot clock open 3 from the corner, so help me God.
     
  10. MettaWorldPeace

    MettaWorldPeace Contributor

    Athletically, I think quicker teams do better spacing Tennessee individually and "out-athleting" Tennessee's players by either using a ball screen for a mismatch or matching up to a slower player who cannot stay in front. It does not help matters that Tennessee falls for every pump fake in history. Alexander is the best post defender we have in terms of consistency. Unpopular opinion, but I feel like Grant is lazy and ball-watches too much. Of course, when you carry the team for two years, you are probably entitled to a little bit of that.
     
  11. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    At the risk of NYY breaking the internet, what is “ball watching” and why is it bad?
     
  12. GahLee

    GahLee Director of Conspiracy Theories, 8th Maxim

    You get back cuts when you do that, leads to open looks at the rim.
     
  13. GahLee

    GahLee Director of Conspiracy Theories, 8th Maxim

     
  14. MettaWorldPeace

    MettaWorldPeace Contributor

    Letting people cut to the basket. Also, watching the ball and not rebounding. My biggest gripe.
     
  15. GahLee

    GahLee Director of Conspiracy Theories, 8th Maxim

    So, does spacing us out work best because we are better / more comfortable / more used to / prefer playing “team” defense, and not good at guarding in one-on-one matchups? So spacing us out takes the team / help out of it? And if another defender leaves their man to help on the defender getting beat on the one-on-one penetration, the driving player finds the open man the second defender just left for a wide open shot, or another opening to also drive in?

    Essentially, yes. UT is willing to switch on screens because they believe as individual defenders they can match up well enough across the board. The problem with switching is it only takes one man being late on a rotation or one guy ball watching to give the other team a good look. It is also taxing physically and mentally, as guys are having to do hard close outs or hard rotations they wouldn't normally have to do with straight man-to-man defense. A good passing team will eat up another team that likes to switch. You breakdown eventually.

    I don’t understand anything about rotations, switches, why we rotate or switch, at all, much less how we can do either any differently or better.

    UT is solid at switching and rotating and we have the horses to do it. I'm not the biggest fan of switching on ball screens, certainly not a fan of it as a standard practice. Watch the Heat vs Spurs Finals. Those Miami teams would fly on rotations, they did it as good as anyone I have ever seen and they got [uck fay]ing roasted by the Spurs because San Antonio just moved the ball faster than they could rotate.

    Also, and BTW, what is our best / primary defense, and which types of offenses are we best or least equipped to stop?

    I would say straight man-to-man defense is our best option. We have ran very little zone, so it is hard to say if we are any good at it. A team with an elite point guard, a good big that can roll to the basket and a few spot up shooters will give us fits if we decide to be that team that rotates on every screen.

    Maybe the most important question is this - are our recent defensive lapses an issue which primarily originates from personnel or X’a & O’s....and can we fix them? For example, if our trouble is that we just don’t have defenders who are good enough for one-on-one defense, a change in scheme might be of some help, but not eliminate those physical limitations. Or, conversely, is our primary problem that we’ve got plenty of good athletes who can defend anyone, but we’re not able to do so because they’re not executing what they need to do in order to defend / stop them (eg switching, not hedging the screen* at the right time, place or in the right way)?

    We have very good one-on-one defenders. Bone, Bowden and Turner can really guard their positions, in the case of Bowden, he can guard 1-3 really well. Grant, Admiral and Alexander are all good defenders as well. Collectively I think we can be as good defensively as we are offensively. It will take mixing up the defensive game plan a little more though, you can't switch everything all game long and live to tell about when you are facing a really good team.

    I’m appreciating the education and in learning more.

    * I have no damned idea what this means, and only saw it in another post.

    To hedge a screen is to basically give the impression you are switching, and you are, but just for a second. So the guard has the ball at the top of the 3-point line. He calls for the screen. The big comes and sets a screen on the defender, whoever is guarding the big has to show himself on the same side of that screen, he has to fill that space as quickly as possible to deter the guard from driving, meanwhile the defender who was screened has had time to recover and get back in to position. UT should be doing this more than switching on every damn ball screen. That shit is only sustainable for so long. Good teams will run you ragged on rotations to the point you can't get there because you are tired and that is when the wheels fall of.
     
    IP, smokysbark and Tenacious D like this.
  16. GahLee

    GahLee Director of Conspiracy Theories, 8th Maxim

    Sometimes the shots just don't fall. He had some really good looks and he didn't make them. He is settling on offense though. Would like to see him more aggressive on driving the ball and also posting up more.
     
  17. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    This is immensely helpful and most appreciated. Legit, thank you.
     
  18. GahLee

    GahLee Director of Conspiracy Theories, 8th Maxim

    Yeah man.
     
  19. YankeeVol

    YankeeVol Member

    Admiral is trying too hard recently, like he's trying to prove something. He just needs to relax and play
     
  20. YankeeVol

    YankeeVol Member

    Fulky shouldn't be in the rotation until the game is well in hand
     

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