The NBA Thread.

NBA FINALS RECORDS:
MJ: 6-0
Lebron: 3-5

Number of people who claimed they ever quit:
MJ: 0
Lebron: Not zero, many.

Indy, help me to get past these two (2) points.

Because they seem fatal to your entire argument.

 

I don't care about the second point. I'm not interested in debating it.

I've been trying to respond to your 6-0, never had to play a game 7 comment, but everyone seems intent on answering questions I haven't asked rather than the ones I did ask.

I'll come back later and do all work for you. The bottom line will be that 6-0, no game 7, sounds a lot better than 3-5, lots of game 7's, but the teams LeBron has played in the finals (not necessarily the entire playoffs, the finals) have all been better from a talent perspective than any of the teams MJ defeated in the finals.

 

Indy's new avatar is [uck fay]ing amazing.

 

[dadgum].

 

I’m picturing OJ trying to put the glove on, but it’s just too damn tight.

 

Didnt think nba thread would lead to bootyhole fingering denials.

 

Have you ever counted the number of all-time greats that Jordan had to beat in order to make it to the Finals, much less to win it.

And 6-0 doesn’t sound better than 3-5. It is better. Demonstrably. It’s so obvious as to be self-evident.

By a lot.

Period. Hard stop.

 

I have no idea why he’d allow Sab to finger his butthole, at all, much less to admit as much, here.

 

As the old addage says: in for a lunula, in for a knuckle.

 

Okay, let's start with the "6-0 in the finals, never needed a game 7" argument for @Tenacious D . To illustrate the difference in quality between the teams each player faced in the finals, here's a list of the hall of fame players who played for the teams MJ/LeBron faced in the finals:

Jordan:

1991 - Lakers - Vlade Divac, Magic, Worthy
1992 - Blazers - Drexler
1993 - Suns - Barkley
1996 - Sonics - Gary Payton; MAYBE Shawn Kemp
1997 - Jazz - Stockton, Malone
1998 - Jazz - Stockton, Malone

Average: 1.83 per team

LeBron:

2011 - Mavericks - Dirk, Kidd; MAYBE Marion
2012 - OKC - Durant, Westbrook, Harden
2013 - Spurs - Duncan, Leonard, Parker, Ginobli (Tracy McGrady was on this roster too, but we won't count him)
2014 - Spurs - Duncan, Leonard, Parker, Ginobli
2015 - GSW - Steph, Klay; MAYBE Iguodala, Green
2016 - GSW - Steph, Klay; MAYBE Iguodala, Green
2017 - GSW - Durant, Steph, Klay; MAYBE Iguodala, Green
2018 - GSW - Durant, Steph, Klay; MAYBE Iguodala, Green

Average: 3.5 per team

Takeaways:

• It's difficult to handle the maybe's, especially for players still playing. For the purpose of this exercise, I counted Kemp and Marion, and I counted one of the two between Iggy and Draymond for each of the 4 finals they played in. If you feel my approach is unfair, feel free to let me know.
• LeBron's competition in the finals has been substantially stronger than Jordan, so comparing their records is not necessarily a fair way to compare the two players.
• If you were to rank the 14 teams from best to worst, none of the teams MJ played would even break the top 6.
• So, yeah, 6-0 sounds great and definitely better than 3-5. But if the 3 teams LeBron beat were all better than 6 MJ beat, and 3 of the 5 he lost two were also better than the 6 MJ beat, it adds a little perspective.
• The "never needed a game 7" is equally stupid, for the reasons outlined above, and because he needed game 7's in prior rounds. If no one had taken MJ to a game 7 in any round, ever, that might have been something to write home about.
• Last but not least, LeBron takes more flak for losing in the finals than MJ gets for losing in the first round 3 straight years (swept twice), and it's ridiculous, especially considering the level of talent on the teams LeBron played in each finals.

I acknowledge that MJ played a ton of other good teams leading up to the finals. I plan to address that too. My point is that it's not realistic to point to finals record and "no game 7" as a true comparison of the two players because the talent on the teams each player played differs drastically.

 

Robert Montgomery Knight called Jordan the best basketball player he’s ever seen. And that was before even he played in the NBA. Enough said.

 

So did Bird and Magic. And Barkley. And basically anybody else who has seen their careers from day 1.

 

I agree to an extent, but it still won't be an apples to apples comparison. LeBron has already played nearly 200 more games than MJ and has never taken seasons off in between. If LeBron is still playing at 40, he will have played the equivalent of what, 5-6 more seasons than MJ? I understand that age is a factor, but so is minutes played.

 

How many games did Bird, Magic, and Barkley play against MJ? How many did they play against LeBron?

Is it possible for players to be biased towards the players they played against?

Is playing against one player the same thing as watching another player?

Can you evaluate a player you played against to the same degree of effectiveness that you can evaluate a player you've only watched?

Are players automatically good at evaluating other players because they played?

 

Ballers know ballers. Doesnt matter. They see all the other things you are failing or refusing to see, and yes loafing or half assing it is one thing teammates and those sitting on the bench dont think too highly of.

 

You're still on this loafing/half assing thing? Seriously? It's been pretty well documented that LeBron conserves energy in meaningless games as a way to help lengthen his career and prevent significant injury. He's getting old, and father time is undefeated. He knows that.

No one is debating whether MJ or LeBron are "ballers." This isn't identifying an NBA player in a pick up game full of scrubs, for [uck fay]'s sake. We are talking about the differences between the two best basketball players of all time.

And stop cherry picking these people's opinions. Here's an article written TODAY, in which Magic calls LeBron the "best all-around basketball player" and Jordan "the greatest ever." He then goes on to say LeBron has a chance to catch him:

https://fadeawayworld.net/2020/05/2...e-goat-debate-michael-jordan-vs-lebron-james/

Magic's opinion seems to align more closely with my view than with yours and others in this thread. And has it ever occurred to you that a guy like Magic might have an ego himself? And that he might know that MJ will forever be considered better than him, but that there are still some people who would put him ahead of LeBron? Don't act like these all time greats would ever want to admit that ANOTHER player has truly passed them.

 

Also, I love the @Ssmiff way of arguing where you just repeat the same stupid shit over and over and over and over without ever answering anyone questioning your beliefs or responding to what anyone actually says. I asked you 6 questions, and you didn't answer a single one.

 

That's double-counting if one is considering stats too. James should have every stat if he's played 5-6 more seasons.

 

i'm not answering your questions because you evidently aren't capable of understanding answers unless they fit your already written script and you aren't going to teach me anything about basketball. Period.
Let me ask you this, if Lebron wasn't 6'9 260, would he be the same player? The answer is no because he doesn't have the skillset. He is an athletic strong freak who was bigger, stronger and faster than who he matched up against and went right hand to the rim for 95% of his finishes and nobody would get in his way. His post game sucks, especially for his size, you don't want him at the ft line, you don't want Lebron guarding your main guy because he will get lit the [uck fay] up and you, by all means you don't want to be on the floor with him in a reg season game (assuming he's resting his legs).
Typical of too many of your generation, loafing and half assing it is excused. Jordan practiced and played balls out to beat his opponent daily and nightly. He tried to win every possession. People will never say the same about Lebron. That you don't factor in effort, leadership, lack of drama, pouting, flopping, quitting, not hustling, etc to your judgement of a player is telling