Two Years In: Butch vs. Dooley

Before y'alls heads explode just looking at the title, stay with me for a second here. This is supposed to be constructive. I've been trying to point out that Butch has been only moderately more successful after two years ON THE FIELD than Dooley was. Recruiting rankings don't matter. Relationships with former players don't matter. Total mailboxes built doesn't matter. Number of comments about britches, shower technique and Shakespeare doesn't matter.

*If you would like to point out that Dooley inherited more talent than Butch inherited, you may do so. That is a reasonable point to make. I won't dispute that fact, or its possible impact on the argument as a whole.

First, we have records. After two years, [ddiapos] (11-14) vs Butch Jones (12-13). Butch with a slight edge. Butch also won a bowl game which is kind of nice, although to be fair Dooley did get screwed out of a bowl victory. Butch has also beaten one ranked team (woo!), a task too tall for Dooley and Co.

Now on to statistical analysis, we will compare UT's national ranking in several categories in each of the coach's first two seasons.

Off. Points Per game
Dooley: 69th in 2010, 108th in 2011
Jones: 97th in 2013, 68th in 2014

Off. Yards Per Game
Dooley: 79th in 2010, 104th in 2011
Jones: 103rd in 2013, 85th in 2014

Def. Points Per Game
Dooley: 62nd in 2010, 37th in 2011
Jones: 87th in 2013, 42nd in 2014

Def. Yards Per Game
Dooley: 81st in 2010, 24th in 2011
Jones: 94th in 2013, 42nd in 2014

Again, again, this is not me saying I want Dooley or Dooley is better or that Dooley doesn't deserve to die in a fire. None of those things are true. It's just time that we collectively quit allowing recruiting rankings to blind us. Without recruiting rankings Butch Jones is [ddiapos].

 

There's an aspect to your analysis that you are overlooking, if you are being objective. Trend.

 

I don't disagree, although Hunter being out in 2011 hurt a lot, but that doesn't really alter the overarching theme here in my opinion.

 

Dude. You're trying to make a point that shows that Jones is practically on even par with Dooley in their first two years and post a few statistics that actually goes against your opinion for the most part.

I've got to admit, I'm a bit surprised at the depth of the reaction to the loss. I knew it would be bad, because that's what it deserves but not this far. I could understand if the consensus was that UT was a legit title contender. Instead, almost in unison this board predicted an up and down season that would feature anywhere from 3-6 losses. So here we are and we are (more than likely) exactly what we thought we would be, yet it seems like there is a bit of shock and anger at a loss.

 

The biggest blown lead in the history of Neyland Stadium where we were by far the better team loss. You seem to thinl this is just another loss to a superior opponent. It isn't. It was a historic loss that had absolutely no business happening.

 

Would be interesting to see where those 2014 numbers might be had we been able to stick with Worley all year, like the best staff in America wanted to do.

 

"Goes against your opinion for the most part". You're joking right?

 

Absolutely. It isn't like Oklahoma is coming off a Natty and rolled in here ranked #2 in the country. They were #19 and we were #23 and had a HUGE homefield advantage.

And Jones shit is britches and desperately tried to sit on at 17 point lead and watched it evaporate away. My wife (and she is pretty savvy about football, so I respect her opinion) said immediately in the first quarter "Why are they kicking a field goal?"

And then, when the game went to 17-10, she says "Alan, I am going to bed, I am not going to stay up and watch them lose."

This is all on Jones, and he sucks. He will never have the ire that Dooley generates, as Dooley tanked his last season to get fired. And that is a sin worthy of the 9th level of Hell.

Jones is just a conman that has finally conned himself into a position that he cannot con his way out of.

 

This.

 

Yeah. Jones is not Dooley. That doesn't make him a good football coach, but he isn't Dooley.

 

Sounds like you're taking a big picture, across the board interpretation. Purely wins and losses, points and yards, the difference is negligible.

 

There is a stark difference between the two, it hasn't fully paid dividends in terms of wins/losses but it's just different. I'm not sure anyone would have picked UT to win the OU game if Dooley were the coach.

 

No. As IP pointed out, you are ignoring direction. Butch's teams have improved. Dooley was like the bizarro Midas; everything he touched got worse.

I do not think Butch is completely incompetent. I think he is an average football coach who is an above average salesman and recruiter. I think Dooley is bad at everything.

 

Direction? We have more talent than we did when Butch took over. Is that your definition of direction? Cause that's all Butch has. Yes if given a few more years Butch will get maybe an 8 or 9 win season, and he would be doing with elite talent in a weak SEC east.

 

How, seriously how, do you respond to my post about wins, losses, points and yards with this.

 

Dooley lost to a Kentucky team with a WR playing QB. I don't see how this is even a discussion.

 

Stats without context are useless. Much like everything that comes out of your mouth. You may notice that nobody is agreeing with you on this.

 

I don't think we were "by far the better team." People are exaggerating the comparison of us and OU too much. They weren't some juggernaut, but we weren't miles ahead of them from a talent perspective either.

 

Direction (n: ) the line along which anything lies, faces, moves, etc.

In this instance, I use the term to point out how Jones' teams improved in every category you listed from '13 to '14 in an attempt to contrast that with Dooley's teams, which got worse in some of them. Jones' Vols got better; Dooley's Vols got worser. The direction of the program under Jones was positive. The direction of the program under Dooley was negative.

IP used the word trend. I like that word, too.

 

Everyone here thinks you're dumb. Fact.

Context? Seriously? Tell me why those stats are useless. I'm serious please do it.