POLITICS Ukraine

Discussion in 'Politicants' started by CardinalVol, Jan 22, 2022.

  1. zehr27

    zehr27 8th's VIP

    Exactly why I think it will get ugly. Not sure we have a choice if he pushed forward.
     
  2. TennTradition

    TennTradition Super Moderator

    Russia has tremendous leverage over Europe right now. Europe is in energy crisis and Russia holds the keys - from making it tolerable to making it deadly. That significantly neuters the response NATO can make.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2022
    zehr27 likes this.
  3. emainvol

    emainvol Administrator

    It’s interesting reading what people in Ukraine think about the situation, mainly because of the granular look you get at it.

    Grain of salt because Reddit, but for example there is talk of the Russian tanks being moved near the Ukraine border being in quite terrible shape. That is, to the point that they would not stand up to older anti-tank munitions, and the Ukrainians are being supplied with decidedly not-older anti-tank munitions.
     
  4. emainvol

    emainvol Administrator

    The seem to have the Germans by the balls in particular because of Nord Stream
     
    IP likes this.
  5. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    But it is partly a numbers game.
     
  6. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    By a numbers game, I mean if you commit double the tanks, double the troops, and 10x the air power, which they easily could do while holding a lot back, popping old tanks not worth keeping is a sacrifice move. The air superiority will do the heavy lifting.
     
  7. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    If Russia wants Ukraine, they will take and hold Ukraine, with very little foreign interference, and very short lived local resistance.
     
  8. emainvol

    emainvol Administrator

    Oh sure, there’s no pretending Ukraine can match Russia in terms of sheer force.

    The air superiority alone simply can’t be remotely matched without a full commitment from NATO.

    And well, that’s not happening
     
  9. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    Right. So why would you commit new, well-maintained tanks against Ukraine? Commit ones you'd be decommissioning anyway. It's just pieces on the board that must be countered.
     
  10. VolDad

    VolDad Super Moderator

    Why wouldn't NATO [itch bay] slap him and embarrass him in front of his people and the World. He is 1 step below Kim Jong-un in terms of ruthlessness and has deserved a stomping for years.
     
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  11. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    because of what TT said. He controls the natural gas spicket for Germany and much of continental Europe.
     
  12. ole_orange

    ole_orange Board Simp

    Is it even a given that Ukraine can’t defend themselves from a Russian military advancement? Plenty of motivation to fight on their end. And orders are orders in the military, but I wonder just how inspired rank and file Russian soldiers are about embarking on a high casualty campaign. Sitting in a tank waiting on a B-1B to drop a bomb on you sounds fun. Add in NATO and air support provided by our aircraft carrier currently en route to the Mediterranean, I’m not sure why Russia would feel confident militarily. I know Putin does not care about his soldiers dying or anything, but I’d still be shocked if he puts his military into a uphill battle. I just hope WW3 isn’t started over Ukraine.
     
  13. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    Air superiority is such a big deal. Unless Ukraine had something up their sleeve or NATO is willing to maintain a CAP, it seems pretty unwinnable. But I won't say it is a "given." Depends on how hard and dirty Ukrainians are willing to go.
     
  14. emainvol

    emainvol Administrator

    If they get a CAP, all bets are off. The Russians have numbers on the Ukrainians for sure, but a large percentage of the Russian ground forces aren’t exactly well trained, and that doesn’t lend to them just steamrolling a highly motivated resistance.

    But that’s been the knock on the Russians for years, and as you have correctly pointed out. It won’t matter if Ukraine isn’t provided air support
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2022
  15. zehr27

    zehr27 8th's VIP

    So our partners in NATO our holding us all back?
     
  16. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    Or, considering this is all about NATO, this a multifaceted and complex geopolitical situation. Putin is loving that other take, though. It is literally his objective.
     
  17. zehr27

    zehr27 8th's VIP

    Sounds like he is putting some pressure on NATO.
     
  18. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    Yes, this is all about NATO. US is a founding member.
     
  19. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    What is the benefit of going alone, here, exactly?
     
  20. Savage Orange

    Savage Orange I need ammunition, not a ride. -V Zelensky.

    While I realize it’s not even remotely the same thing politically or historically, I have to admit there’s a part of this that seems like 1938 with Germany preparing to take over the Sudentenland… I do feel like that we (as in the world apart from Russia and Russian Allies) will do about as much in response though… kicking the can of appeasement is not a long term strategy. Eventually there’s not going to be any room on the road left to kick that can down.
     

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