The Indy Talks To Himself (NBA) Thread.

I watched 95% of that game last night, it was his teammates' fault. +/- stats got skewed in garbage time when grizzlies we're playing their g league squad

 

You sound like ssmiff. Did you watch the game?

As @2Maggitt2Quit mentioned, +/- got skewed when both teams decided the game was basically over, and the Grizzlies put the scrubs in. And, as you've pointed out before, minutes matter. If your team gets thrashed, of course there's a solid chance that the dude who played the most minutes, by quite a bit, is gonna have the lowest +/-. Even Westbrook, who averages 35 minutes a game, only played 26.

The advanced stats (that rely on team performance) are lying to you, brother. Where do you suggest that the man improve? 74% from the field on volume shooting, 75% from 3, only 4 turnovers, 2 of which came after they were already down 20. What should he be doing better/differently?

Dude scores 35 points on 74% shooting while the other 4 starters score 22 points on 21% shooting, and this man wants to talk about +/- after a quick run through the box score. Sheesh.

 

Sounds like me huh. Indy I will take my knowledge of what happens on the court over you every minute of every day. You don't see much of anything else except the good things lebron does and have shown yourself incapable of anything else. Who gives a flying [uck fay] about shooting %, pts etc when losing. Losing means something is amiss either on the defensive end,you aren't making your teammates better and/or leadership issues, which can occur when teammates watch shitty body language and are all Lebron issues you can't and won't ever be able to see.

 

You're right. 4 of the Lakers starting 5 shot 21% from the field and couldn't stay in front of their guy on the defensive end last night because of LeBron's shitty body language at some point during some game (unless you are insinuating he had shitty body language last night, during the game you did not watch).

 

You wouldn't know what to look for anyway Indy. Keep reading stat lines and making excuses

 

This is your contribution to this thread. You claim others, who watch the games, don’t know what to look for, while you yourself comment on games you don’t even watch.

 

Like, it's [uck fay]ing basketball. Laker players not named LeBron shot 32% from the field through the first 3 quarters. You don't have to be a basketball genius to say "Gee, one of these teams is missing a lot more shots than the other."

 

Why would the Grizzlies putting in worse players make LeBron’s +/- worse? Lol.

This is over the top on assumptions that teammates shooting poorly in one game makes last night a microcosm of every single game, that advanced stats are unable to adjust for bad teammates, that all of the ones that don’t love LeBron rely on team performance and that they’re therefore all invalid. All of those are incredibly dubious haha. This also isn’t the first time LeBron has had bad teammates.

 

Generally speaking I agree with this

 

Grizzlies playing a pace and space system with Jackson as the big or Clark spelling him seems like the way to go.

 

You pointed out that his +/- was “team worst.” The Lakers made up a lot of ground after the game was already decided. Bron still might have been team worst, regardless, but if you had watched the game, you’d know they would have lost by 50 if he hadn’t played.

Last night was a mixture of poor shooting, bad defense, and no rim protection in the small line up they’ve been forced to play. They’re either big but too old or young but too small. Good chance they lose tonight either way, but the shooting absolutely was the reason they were blown the [uck fay] out.

And we keep talking as if LeBron’s advanced stats are bad or something. I’ll pull the same stats you previously pulled again tomorrow. I think his lowest one is 9th in the league. He’s like, top 4 in most of them, if I remember correctly, even after a loss where he went -30. Which is funny because by the way you talk about it, you’d think he was outside the top 15 in each. My point is that the difference in him being where he is and being at the top is largely attributable to the team.

 

@NashVol11

2021-22 (Updated)

Player Efficiency Rating: 25.8 (Now 27.4 - 4th in the league)
True Shooting %: .622 (Now .630, higher than Kevin Durant and Giannis)
Win Shares per 48 Minutes: .196 (Now .221, 9th in the league, with guys like Robert Williams, Montrezl Harrell, and Jarrett Allen all in the top 7)
Box Plus-Minus: 7.7 (Now 8.7 - 4th in the league ahead of Steph, KD, Embiid, etc.)

It's not like the advanced stats (that you chose) are bad for LeBron. He's just not at the top. My guess is he'd be closer if his team could hit shots or stay in front of defenders consistently.

And if these are the stats that are important to you, shouldn't LeBron be in the discussion for MVP? Jokic is, without question, in the discussion, and the Lakers are only half a game back from the Nuggets in the standings, despite injuries to both Bron and AD.

 

Jokic statistically has been the best player in the league by a wide margin, with a worse team around him than LeBron and a better record despite a harder schedule. And he still won’t win MVP. LeBron can be the 7th guy in the discussion, sure, but who cares?

 

No one has said his advanced stats are bad. You’re saying this is one of his best seasons and he’d be #1 in everything if he only had a better team, and I’m calling BS on that.

 

The bolded part should tell you why putting so much faith in the advanced statistics is a poor decision.

The team around him *may* be worse, but not by much of a margin. the supporting cast for both teams is bad, based largely on injuries.

Why won't he win MVP? He won it last year, and he's having a better statistical season this year. If Denver finds a way to move into the top 3-4 in the conference, wouldn't failing to give it to him be an admission that he didn't deserve it last year?

LeBron is 5th right now, imho.

 

I said "The Lakers suck, but LeBron is quietly having one of his best statistical seasons of his career." Highest FT % of his career. Third highest 3pt% despite his highest attempts per game by far. Averaging the most points he's averaged since 2010 despite averaging as many or more minutes in 6 of the 11 seasons since.

I'm not saying he'd be #1 in everything. I'm saying that the poor team performance is a big part of the difference between where he is and the top 1-3 in each category (of those that make sense for him to be top 1-3). And the season would likely rank much higher for advanced stats amongst his other seasons as well.

 

…why? Jokic has been playing at a ridiculous level and has comfortably been better than LeBron this year. His team is also 23(!) points better with him on the court, which is a joke.

 

That’s a pretty huge if, and no, it won’t say anything about last year. There’s nothing to “admit”.

 

But it’s not. Jokic has the same team performance and ranks way higher in basically everything. In RAPTOR and LEBRON he’s a mile ahead of everyone else, so his team clearly isn’t holding him back

 

Idk man. I'm not even sure that I agree the Lakers have the better team. With AD in the lineup, of course, but Bron and AD have only played 15 games together this season.

And then there's the consistency argument. 3 of Denver's other 4 typical starters (Barton, Gordon, and Morris) all played big minutes for them last year. Barton is very solid, and Gordon has a case for being all-defense this year. Then you also have Facundo and Austin Rivers, as well as PJ Dozier, who all played a fair amount for them last year as well.

Aside from AD, who hasn't played since 12/17 and was struggling even when he did play, there are no Lakers starters that were on the team last year. You could make a case for THT, but even he has been disappointing this season. The roster is just not very good with AD and Kendrick Nunn out, and they've had to build chemistry the entire season on top of that.

Do you have a case that the team around Jokic has played poorly? I, admittedly, have not watched them as much, but I can't imagine they are worse defensively that what the Lakers are currently putting on the court. And while Jokic's defense has improved, let's not pretend he's some defensive stalwart that's carrying them on that end.