COVID-19 (artist formerly known as Wuhan strain novel Corona virus)

Discussion in 'The Thunderdome' started by IP, Jan 28, 2020.

  1. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    Whether the bed is occupied by a COVID patient or a car crash victim, capacity is capacity and the net result of "no more beds" is the same. Further, creating "surge" ICU capacity beyond normal capacity is great and necessary, but shouldn't be used to alter the math that is looking at the relative change to normal conditions-- because creating ICU surge beds doesn't also create ICU surge personnel.
     
  2. TennTradition

    TennTradition Super Moderator

    These are beds within a hospital system that is reporting its ability to treat COVID patients. I'm not questioning the technical accuracy, I'm questioning the responsibility of the reporting and whether the governor expressing displeasure with the messaging is unhelpful political intervention or proper management of communication with the public.

    If his message was "you are the hospital system of the state university and I'm the governor, don't report on your bed utilization because people are going to start locking themselves in their homes if they realize how bad it is" then it is bad political intervention. If his message is "if you guys are no where near being full, don't say your full" then I think that's completely fair.
     
  3. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    "HEADLINES BAD, EXPECTATIONS OF READING ARTICLE UNFAIR"
     
  4. TennTradition

    TennTradition Super Moderator

    But there are more beds. As many beds that are full are available.

    Also, it does matter what is filling the beds. There is no reason to suspect that Houston would need twice as many ICU beds for non-COVID purposes than they typically fill.

    So if they typically run at 75% ICU capacity, and now they are at 100% of original because of COVID - but they have double the beds available now, the COVID fill dynamic is what is important to understanding how the remaining 1,400 will fill.
     
  5. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    It matters very much. Hospitals don't have teleportation machines for doctors. If they need to be in two ICUs at once... that's a problem.
     
  6. justingroves

    justingroves supermod

    Let's see

    "We're full!" When you have 1,400 beds is disingenuous at best, lying at worst.

    "Don't worry, we aren't near capacity" is disingenuous at best, lying at worst.

    "We've only got 1,400 beds, slow down" is about right.
     
    IP likes this.
  7. TennTradition

    TennTradition Super Moderator

    Do you want to accept reality or pretend that people actually read the articles?

    You HAVE to understand how people consume information when you provide it.

    I generate material weekly that is consumed by the executives in my company. I have quickly learned how I must label and present, to avoid unintended outcomes. Those in public health capacities face something similar. Certain phrases will be seized upon. Use them only if you mean them.
     
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  8. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    If the hospitals are full, a hospital saying it is full is an accurate statement. Having them amend to say that there is more medical care available somewhere else, is not.

    Is the hospital covering the cost of transport from the hospital to the overflow? Is the new overflow covered in insurance, or is it out of network?
     
    IP likes this.
  9. Ssmiff

    Ssmiff Went to the White House...Again

    Ive never had one and i believe ive had the flu 3 or 4 times in last 15 years. Ill roll with that and wont be getting a covid vaccine either
     
  10. TennTradition

    TennTradition Super Moderator

    Now this is a much more reasonable line of discussion/reporting. Is the quality of care similar when accessing those last 1,400 beds? Is the plan sufficient to promote quality of care - or is there a large tradeoff? I have not seen TMC or other hospitals speaking to that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
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  11. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    I don't do anything as high powered as you but similarly generate material. It is frustrating to me that information is necessarily lost because the messaging always has to be condensed. Because later, you get "but you didn't say..." To which I point to the appendix or supporting document that wasn't read.

    So I get it.
     
  12. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    They are saying that when saying a hospital is full.

    Because hospital does not equal "available care." A hospital is a closed system, not an expandable one, on demand.
     
  13. peelwonder

    peelwonder Member

    True on the whistleblower but having multiple misdemeanor/felony charges says something about the person. Let's say you have an opportunity to hire her, would you?
    I hire people all the time and she's got red flags all over her that scream stay away.
     
  14. TennTradition

    TennTradition Super Moderator

    I'm not even sure it is somewhere else. They were reporting that this capacity existed within their hospital system all along on a waterfall chart. But they were showing that "original" capacity was full because they made the charts to show "original" capacity, beds that were added to be ready for COVID, and additional beds that could be ready if needed. If the beds are there or can be there today (and as your earlier post alluded to, there are medical professionals available to care for you if you are in that bed ), then the fact that the original is full isn't troubling from a point of care standpoint.

    It is absolutely valuable to understand that ICU-hospitalization is increasing, there is a growing problem, etc. But the idea that a bed isn't available for you if you need it when in fact it is seems to be to be irresponsible reporting of information.
     
  15. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    Honestly no, she wouldn't be an easy choice to hire. She seems to have some issues.
     
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  16. TennTradition

    TennTradition Super Moderator

    A lot of hospitals converted areas into rooms that could be used for ICU treatment. It is expandable within existing buildings. We saw China build a hospital in two weeks. These things are expandable in many ways.
     
  17. peelwonder

    peelwonder Member

    Like I said I just want a truthful news source. Anywhere. I feel like they just don't exist anymore.
     
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  18. 2Maggitt2Quit

    2Maggitt2Quit Chieftain

    They definitely don't sell as well as the alternative.
     
  19. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    Building a new hospital is not the same as a single hospital. Hospitals are private entities.

    If the government, as was likely in China, builds a government backed hospital, that the community can use, is not the same as a hospital doing it themselves.

    A hospital expanding rooms is still limited to how much it can expand. Most aren't going to build capacity they will not need once this is over, which is why government is doing it.

    Health capacity is not the same as "hospital."
     
  20. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    Available within the system and available at the ER you enter aren't the same. They can be, and often are, but if you are in overflow, they may not be.

    If a minor surgery area is converted to ICU, but requires transport from the physical hospital, to the building, via ambulance. You got care. The system has capacity. But there isn't as much being done during the ambulance ride.

    They won't transport you if you aren't stable, but stable seems to be a moving metric with this thing.

    It is absolutely valuable information to know the hospital you arrive at may be full. Even though you can still get care.
     

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