4 stars are better than 3 stars #fact

NOTE: I started this thread over at TOOS. It is a minor variation -- like, it's nearly verbatim -- of a thread I started about a year ago. But apparenlty the folks over there forgot the lessons they once learned, so I copied the text of the original post of the old thread, added the text from one of my posts later on in the thread that was responsive to an argument raised, and reposted it just now. I'm not going back to check on this one. I have no interest in sorting out the dead bodies from the train wreck. I just wanted to initiate the train wreck and then get the hell out of dodge. I'll probably get called for starting a thread that is substantially simlar to a thread I started a year ago. That's cool...just as long as they don't ixnay it as a result.

4 stars are better than 3 stars #fact - VolNation


4 stars are better than 3 stars #fact
Poster 1: I"m a little worried that we haven't been landing more four star guys.

Poster 2 (response A): Trust the evaluations of our coaches.

Poster 2 (response B): Stars don't matter. [Insert good college player] was a 3-star. How'd that work out?

I would like to emphasize for the record that while Poster 1 may be annoying, Poster 2 is both annoying and RETARDED. Recruiting rankings do matter, and discussions about them are perfectly appropriate and constructive. So for those who wish to make mention of recruiting stars (or even offer list stature) a taboo subject: please stop your silly little crusade. It is going to be discussed, and it is probative. You just sound dumb. And you never wanna go full retard.


Dear Poster 2: My Response to your Response A
There is no doubt in my mind that [ddiapos] has better information on recruits than does Brent Hubbs. Zero doubt. With this information, Dooley and his staff are able to put together various lists and sub-lists that are more informed than the lists you see at Rivals. I agree with every bit of that.

But I'm also certain that if you were to take the Rivals list and put it up side by side next to Dooley's, there would be a pretty decent correlation between the two. I mean, it isn't *that* hard to evaluate talent. By extension, if you put Dooley's list side by side with Nick Saban's list, there would also be a pretty good correlation between the two. What I'm getting at here is that Derek can (and he probably actually does) know who the best players in the country are. But that doesn't mean that he's getting them. If he were getting them, I believe our recruiting classes would (a) look a lot more like Bama's than they presently do, and (b) this would also be reflected in the recruiting rankings.

Does this make sense? I fully concede that recruiting services have imperfect information, but the evidence suggests that it is good enough for us fans to use as a barometer to know whether we are keeping up with the Sabans and such. To state this slightly differently, I don't have any reason to believe that the lesser ranked players we are getting are "diamonds in the rough". I have no reason to believe that Dooley and Co. know something that the rest of the coaches in the SEC don't know. And so stargazing, while imperfect, is much more constructive than star ignoring.


Dear Poster 2: My Response to your Response B

Facts. Data. Statistics. Math. Arguments. Evidence. Hypotheses. Sub-conclusions. Ultimate conclusions. Syllogisms. Objectivity. Rational thought. Clear prose. Logic. Cause. Effect. Truth. Lies. Your mother. Moist. My *****. Erect. Unity. Oooh. Togetherness. Aaah.

Please read these before responding. Seriously. It'll be good for you. You never wanna go FULL retard. Consider this an ounce of prevention.

(the below are links in the post at TOOS. I'm not relinking all that)

2010 Signing Day - Football Outsiders: Recruiting matters even more than you might think - ESPN

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Varsity Numbers: Recruiting Spectacular

College Football - Bill Connelly: A 2010 recruiting snapshot sees the Pac-10 in decline, the Big East better than expected and the Mountain West overachieving - ESPN

Hug your friendly neighborhood recruiting rankings - Dr. Saturday - NCAAF*Blog - Yahoo! Sports

Mister Relevant: Why you shouldn't dismiss recruiting rankings - Dr. Saturday - NCAAF*Blog - Yahoo! Sports

Star Power: Recruiting gurus' All-American track record, by the numbers - Dr. Saturday - NCAAF*Blog - Yahoo! Sports

Star Power: Recruiting gurus' track record at the top of the polls, by the numbers - Dr. Saturday - NCAAF*Blog - Yahoo! Sports

Star Power: Judging the recruiting rankings, game by game - Dr. Saturday - NCAAF*Blog - Yahoo! Sports

 

Girls have a ******. Boys have a *****.

 

My my my Mrs. Robinson, your ****** certainly is moist this evening.

 

"Oh yeah, 'just the tip', is a great game to play. What you do is you press the head of your ***** up against her outer *****."

 

L A B I A

Outer L A B I A

 

We've got more censorship than the TOOS. By a lot. That's about as cool as trying unsuccessfully for hours to suck on your own *****.

 

Anyone that recognizes what Dooley is doing with recruiting as 'reeling in talent' doesn't deserve a keyboard... That site is hopeless.

 

I think Dooley knows how to recruit, he just isn't providing the high profile kids with something to think about ultimately forcing him to settle. I think the recruiting problem we're having at Tennessee can be easily solved. Win.

 

I tend to agree. I think he realizes top talent. I just don't think he can get so much as a second phone call with most of the top tier guys.

 

Agreed. There's a reason the 2011 class was better than the 2012 class. And the 2010 was better than either. We weren't coming off a 5-7 season with a loss to Kentucky.

 

Pretty sure this is a misquote.

 

Holiday Inn Express in Moline vs. Sandestin?

 

It's a quote from a post in the thread he linked.

 

Taken out of context.

 

Yeah, this one.

I agree with Huffman here, sounds like he is talking about them doing a nice job of reeling in quality talent. Funny how Dooley has to win first, can't compete with Saban yet but those things didn't stop Kiffin from recruiting head to head with Saban. He didn't exactly take over a winner when he had the interest of several high level recruits. The excuses just don't stop for Dooley over there.

 

What pizzes me off is the fact that they are willing to sacrifice their firstborn child to honor Dooley's recruiting prowess while crucifying Kiffin about having us on probation, etc. The fact that there were no major violations that led to any football sanctions as a result of Kiffin is totally lost on them.

Let's look rationally at it. Only an idiot would deny that Dools came in under difficult circumstances. I'm not ready to claim Marshall tragedy level difficult, but trying times nonetheless. Kiffin went to SC who got hit with major violations and sanctions. Scholarships were lost, a 2 year ban on post-season play was initiated, and Jrs and Srs were allowed to transfer with no penalty. That's some pretty harsh shiz!

Dooley came into a program that had 3 head coaches in 3 years. There was turmoil. There were no NCAA major violation or stiff penalties or even probation, however.
As far as recruiting goes, who had the tougher sell? I'll let the facts presented speak my opinion on the matter.

Analyzing recruiting results, the one area Dooley is viewed as killing it. Kiffin is pulling in 5* after 5*. He has, what, like 3 of the top 10 recruits for 2013 already committed? The guy is not just making love to the prom queen, he is making her his bish. She is giving in to every one of his kinky, perverted sexual desires. And she's loving every second of it as she begs for more.
Dooley is bringing in the 5th, 6th, or 7th best recruiting class in the conference, not the nation. He thinks the prom queen is an uppitty huzzy that is out of his league. In fact, he thinks why risk getting screwed over by the prom queen when you can settle for the most popular band chick. In other words, he has no confidence that he can make the prom queen What to stay with him. He then spins it by saying that he has a good church-going girl that was the prettiest flag corps gal that everyone would be proud to introduce to their mother. It's smoke and mirrors designed to hide the fact that the prom queen doesn't even know his name, and to pump up the perception of the band chick, who isn't fugly, but is in no way comparable to the grace and stunning beauty of the prom queen. In other words, Kiffin is targeting the best of the best all across the nation and being very successful in pulling in more than his fair share. On the other hand, Dooley is going after the best of the best 3* players that are "high character" using that phrase to divert attention from the fact that our recruits are lacking two stars compared to our former coach's recruits. Kiffin knows what he wants and he goes after it unmercifully- a "whatever it takes attitude". Dooley, while talking a great game about "doing things the right way" and making references to "high character" and "VFL", sees what he wants- he recognizes talent- and poo-poos them for "not being the right fit". Yeah he sees what he wants, gives up on them and goes after another "diamond in the rough" that "is a good fit" 3* recruit at the CAKs of the world.

To be honest, I was mad as hell when Kiffin left. I didn't care for the guy at that particular time. It was an emotional reaction because I liked where he had the Vols headed. As I calmed, I have a better understanding why he left.

 

I would love to know where Tennessee is at today if Kiffin doesn't leave. Mark Richt was the biggest winner in him leaving and it only makes me sad thinking about how he would have owned Muschamp too.

 

I think we'd be winning big, or at least competing big. That said, even though Kiffin didn't leave us with anything that resulted in sanctions, I can't say with any confidence that it wouldn't have eventually led to that. But I was mad the night he left too, because I too was excited about where we were headed. I didn't like everything he was doing, but winning certainly would've made it easier to put up with.

 

As far as the "stars" discussion, my view's always been you can't necessarily zoom in to one particular player and say 4* > 3*, but I think looking at the larger trend, you keep signing classes full of 4* players and you're going to be better off than signing classes full of 3* players, i.e. there's going to be hits and misses on individual players, but in the big picture 4*'s will pay off.

 

This is how I feel too. I believe Kiffin when he said he had to do certain things to bring attention to Tennessee such as calling out Urban Meyer. I believe him because he isn't doing any of that stuff now that he's at USC, he doesn't need to. Because of that, I think he would have settled in and quit bringing any negative attention our way once he got the team rolling and once the product was able to sell itself.