Kemba Walker v. Steph Curry v. James Harden v. Who Cares

Discussion in 'Sports' started by GahLee, Nov 22, 2018.

  1. utvol0427

    utvol0427 Chieftain

    Well, [uck fay].
     
  2. Ssmiff

    Ssmiff Thick like Quaker Oats. AKA chubby.

    0472 is a dumbass
     
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  3. GahLee

    GahLee Director of Conspiracy Theories, 8th Maxim

    Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, Jimmy Butler, CJ McCollom and the team is either better or about equal to having Klay.
    Eric Gordon, Tobias Harris and Khris Middleton and there would a be a small drop off but good enough to be favorites.

    Just a few names that popped in my head.

    Klay is great and he does a lot for that team, especially on defense. He isn't as good as some of those guys and is better than others but Golden State could still be Golden State with any of them as his replacement.
     
  4. Indy

    Indy Does not get lucky

    Before responding to all the players you listed, it’s worth pointing out that replacing Klay now or pre-Durant is very different from replacing Klay during the last 3 years. Going back and reading your responses, it seems like you think these guys could replace Klay during any of the last 5 seasons without significant drop off. If that’s what you believe, you’re [uck fay]ing insane. I can live with replacing him more easily the last 3 years because I feel the same way about Curry.

    Yes, I agree, if you replace Klay with arguably the best player in the world right now, the Warriors would be fine.

    Yes and no on George. He just had the best season of his career, by far. If he can maintain that, sure he’s probably an adequate replacement. If he reverts back to the PG13 we’ve seen every other year of his career, no, he’s not an adequate replacement, and I definitely wouldn’t take him over Klay during the 2015 and 2016 seasons. He can score in more ways than Klay, but he’s not nearly as efficient and doesn’t shoot the 3 as well.

    Jimmy Butler is a shitty teammate that multiple guys haven’t wanted to play with. Klay is quiet and fits in perfectly with the Warriors’ “for the team” mindset. The biggest buzz word in the first couple years of the Warriors dynasty was “chemistry.” Jimmy Butler doesn’t fit the Warriors’ chemistry. And he can’t shoot the 3 as well.

    CJ Mccollum? You’re joking, right? He is nowhere near the defender Klay is, nor is he as efficient as a scorer. This guy belongs in the 2nd category of players you listed.

    I honestly think the other three are so laughable as to hardly demand a response, but I’ll humor you for sake of conversation. 5 all star game vs a combined 1. Two all NBA seasons vs a combined 0. Just dumb to think they’re even on the same level.

    Worth noting that none of the players you’ve listed outside of maybe Kawhi can score as quickly and efficiently as Klay. There’s a reason he has the NBA records for most points in a regular season quarter, most 3’s in a regular season game, and most 3’s made in a playoff game. I don’t know that they win in 2015 if you replace Klay with any guy on this list not named Kawhi.
     
  5. GahLee

    GahLee Director of Conspiracy Theories, 8th Maxim

    I wonder what Paul George's 3 point percentage looks like playing along side Curry and Durant? I'm pretty sure he can knock open jumpers.
    Jimmy Butler as a bad teammate, so was Cousins, he fell in line pretty quick.
    CJ McCollom as a 3rd option, with all the defense focusing on Durant and Curry would lit your ass up. He isn't the defensive player Klay is, sure, they'd still roll.
    I think Harris, Middleton and Gordon are inferior players but could play the role of open jumpshooter.

    These players dont have to be as good as Klay to replace Klay and Golden State still be rolling as the overwhelming favorite and playing their brand of basketball. I know you can't wrap your head around this because the same doesn't apply to Curry. But that is what makes Curry....Curry.
     
  6. Indy

    Indy Does not get lucky

    That sounds like a pretty heavy assumption to me. And are you implying that Klay scores most of his points on open jumpers? Seriously?

    These are completely different players in completely different situations. Cousins was known as a cancer to his team, to the point where nobody wanted to add him to their roster post injury. He joined the Warriors knowing that the only chance he had at getting another solid contract was to be on his best behavior and play nice with his teammates. Butler would be in no such situation.

    And what about before Durant? They don't win the first title with any of these guys replacing Klay. They don't win 73 games the year before Durant with any of these guys replacing Klay.

    I do think you could replace him with with some players during the Durant years and they'd still be dominant, but I feel the same way about replacing Curry with a number of players in the same scenario. So I don't think that necessarily shrinks Klay's value in comparison to Curry, which is what we've been arguing all along.

    And also, you're definitely implying that Klay just shoots wide open shots all the time. That's not true and makes you sound dumb.

    Hmm, sounds a lot like what I've said about Curry all along. I agree. With Curry and Durant as teammates, Klay becomes more replaceable, just like Curry becomes more replaceable with Durant and Klay as teammates. My argument this entire time has been that with this many great players on one team, they can dominate even if they replace one of their players with someone who isn't quite as good but is still a very good player and fits their system. You're making the argument for Klay, I made it for Curry.

    The difference is that you've tried to claim all along that Curry is the irreplaceable part of the equation. We found out first hand during the finals that Durant is definitely that piece.
     
  7. InVolNerable

    InVolNerable Fark Master Flex

  8. Indy

    Indy Does not get lucky

    I suppose I should have worded my response differently. It seems like a fair assumption that all players would score most of their points on open shots. My point was that Klay doesn’t shoot open shots at a higher clip than other players or score a significantly higher percentage of his points from them.

    If I ran the 2018-2019 regular season numbers correctly (I’m on my phone, so I could have made errors.), 59% of Klay’s points come from open and wide open shots, while 57% of George’s points come from the same type of shots. That’s not much of a difference.

    If you dig deeper into it, Klay shoots 52% from 2 and 41% from 3 on open and wide open shots. Meanwhile, George shoots 50% from 2 and 38% from 3 on open and wide open shots.

    How about tightly and very tightly covered shots? Klay is 51%/39%, George is 49%/21%.

    So which part of these numbers suggests that George’s 3 point percentage would change if he switched places with Klay? He already shoots 2 more open/wide open 3’s per game than Klay as is.

    Also worth noting that this is taking into account the best season of George’s career, which is a statistical outlier compared to his previous seasons.

    I’m curious to run Curry’s numbers to see how what percentage of his points come from open/wide open shots.
     
  9. Indy

    Indy Does not get lucky

    If my numbers are correct, Curry scores 65% of his points on open/wide open shots.

    He shoots 48% from 2 and 44% from 3 on open/wide open shots. 54%/39% on tightly/very tightly contested shots.

    Interesting. Feel free to double check my math.
     
  10. NashVol11

    NashVol11 Well-Known Member

    Just dropping in to say that comparing Klay to Curry, or even suggesting that they are equally or similarly replaceable, is just asinine. Carry on.
     
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  11. Ssmiff

    Ssmiff Thick like Quaker Oats. AKA chubby.

    hate the injuries, but if the dynasty is over, so be it. Coaching doesn't matter, except you have to have a coach who allows you to play. Walking doesn't matter. Nobody underneath, who cares. Moving picks. Shoot from 27 feet whenever and as much as you want. Shit basketball for the most part imo. Great shooters and a 6'11 guard. When they drove, dished, passed around, pumped and hit net, it was good basketball.
     
  12. NashVol11

    NashVol11 Well-Known Member

    Nick Nurse’s coaching definitely mattered, and the switch from Mark Jackson to Kerr obviously mattered too. When you have three of the top 5 or 10 shooters ever and threes are worth 1.5x any other basket, you tend to shoot from deep. Wild concept.
     

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