It's not an organization. It's a movement. It's not even an organization in individual areas, even though IP makes note of "Greater New York." It would be like saying that everyone who supports firearms legislation are members of the NRA. Just because there is an NRA organization doesn't mean everyone who supports firearms legislation is part of the NRA.
hot take: since biden set a date for withdrawal from Afghanistan, he should acknowledge this was trump's plan as well.
Isn't the date he announced a 3 month delay to the previously announced date or did I read that wrong?
this is the first date I've seen, but trump was eyeing an earlier date, which maybe what you are referring to? I question the wisdom of publicizing a date.
Honest question, didn't Bush try a publicly announced pull out date just to see things turn into a (worse) mess immediately after? Perhaps this was Iraq. I forget.
There comes a time when it has to end though. We cannot stay there policing the place forever. And I will happily admit that it was one of the few things that Trump talked about that I agreed with.
Withdrawing from Afghanistan is a great idea regardless of who came up with it, be it the last guy, this guy or the next guy.
This is the 838th time we've announced we're going to withdrawal. I'll believe it when I see it. Just seems odd a push to the right is being sold as a we're finally withdrawing. Also seems weird to give the taliban the symbolic date of 9/11, why couldn't it have been 9/1?
Withdrawing and leaving aren't the same thing. Is the plan to reduce troops to zero? We've had loads of withdrawals. They've just been followed up with build ups. Our presence in numbers waxes and wanes.
I understand that the number will be zero. "All troops." This was also what Trump wanted, and would have done had he been re-elected. The Pentagon has been advising against this. I just don't know enough about the consequences and risks to have much of an opinion on whether to do it, but I do think specifying a date just gives enemies of democracy more situational awareness to plan around.
Other than Vietnam, I don't know that we're all troops out of anywhere we've ever built a base. I guess there is a second time for everything.
Just basing it on what Biden said, the mission is complete and there is no ongoing mission. Which does sound like a Vietnam-style "let's go home." He remarked as to how we didn't go there to unite Afghanistan, Afghanistan has never been united, and it isn't our role to do so, or something like that. So I don't think we are leaving any troops.
What's strange is the Afghani community in the US that I have read have for years wanted the US to withdraw and didn't think they were doing a net good at this point... but now there is a previously silent part of them who are upset that the US is leaving. Same thing with people actually in Afghanistan. I think some people liked to [itch bay] about the US being there as the cause for various ills, but now when faced with the uncertainty of no US guaranteeing some level of civility or a status quo, they are upset about that too. Which to me only indicates that we have in fact been there too long.
There was some worry, about a decade ago?, about women teachers being forced out of their work and back to traditional roles once the US leaves. Things like that continue to be major uncertainties. And the tribal nature of Afghanistan makes it likely to be true in certain areas, where individual tribal leaders have more power than any central government, that won't take action due to a civil war risk, with outside interference. Can we make Afghanistan free? No. But we can make Kabul free. I don't like just packing up and leaving because its politically or monetarily expedient. We are either a force for good, or not.
It is a big world. We can be a force for good in El Salvador or Sudan, too. Why Afghanistan in particular? Is posting a military presence the best way to be a force of good at this point? It's been 20 years, if we haven't done it with military by now, why will we in 10 or 20 more years?
Because we're already there. We can't get social change in under three generations in our country, and we're supposed to be driven by freedom and concepts of equality and fairness. It's crazy to think some place else has to do it at a much faster pace, all while having a different set of starting principles.
