COVID-19 (artist formerly known as Wuhan strain novel Corona virus)

Discussion in 'The Thunderdome' started by IP, Jan 28, 2020.

  1. JayVols

    JayVols Walleye Catchin' Moderator

    FDR was crippled by polio at age 39. My late great uncle was infected at 5 years old. Age wasn't a factor with polio.

    With the Delta variant, MANY more young people are developing serious illness as compared to the original virus due to mutation. The way to stop mutation is to prevent infections. They way to prevent infections is to vaccinate and mask.
     
  2. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    It seems it may depend on how sick one got, and even then it may be bimodal with some sort of goldilocks "sick enough but not too sick" zone for optimal protection, which may be better than a vaccine, but with the vaccine there is less guess work and no infection.
     
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  3. JayVols

    JayVols Walleye Catchin' Moderator

    Jacobson v. Massachusetts disagrees.

    That was a US Supreme Court case in which the Court upheld the authority of states to enforce compulsory vaccination laws. The Court's decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.

    If states can enforce mandates, the The Supremacy Clause says the federal govt can enforce mandates.
     
  4. JayVols

    JayVols Walleye Catchin' Moderator

    Healthy 20 years olds & teens are getting serious illness & are dying regularly now. My source? My local hospital. Read an article today in the local paper where a healthy 15 year old was being released to a rehab facility after being hospitalized for 44 days, 30 of which were on a ventilator.

    Indy, meet the delta variant. Delta variant, meet Indy.
     
  5. JayVols

    JayVols Walleye Catchin' Moderator

    The unvaccinated are controlling what everyone else can do. I've lived it for a year & a half.
     
  6. JayVols

    JayVols Walleye Catchin' Moderator

    Amen!
     
  7. VolDad

    VolDad Super Moderator

    So when your loved one goes to the Hospital for what would normally be routine treatment, but can't get treated because ICUs are full of unvaccinated, and dies; you will say?
     
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  8. VolDad

    VolDad Super Moderator

    Isn't that what hey are doing?
     
  9. justingroves

    justingroves supermod

    My grandmother needs a valve replaced, there's not enough hospital staff available for that right now
     
  10. Indy

    Indy Pronoun Analyst

    I'm not sure if you're trying to argue with me or just replying to my post with additional information. You seem to be suggesting that this is the 1st successful mRNA vaccine, which, to me, could add to why people might be hesitant. First of its kind and what not.

    Either way, when this whole thing began, there was quite a bit of chatter about how long a vaccine would take. The vaccine was ultimately developed a lot quicker than what that chatter predicted. Blame it on whatever you want - politics certainly played a part. Trump wanted to get it done ASAP and talked it up as much as possible because politics. Democrats downplayed and questioned it because politics. But the bottom line is that these vaccines came about quicker than a lot of people previously projected.
     
  11. Indy

    Indy Pronoun Analyst

    Again, not sure if you're arguing or just replying with additional information. My whole point with Polio was that it doesn't specifically target a subset of people to the degree that COVID does. In other words, if you inserted Polio into a population that had never been exposed to it before, it would probably effect all age groups relatively similarly. COVID doesn't do that.

    As for the young people piece, are you going to back that up with numbers and data? Statistically speaking, children were virtually unaffected by previous variants, so even an increase of many multiples with Delta doesn't necessarily mean that kids are at significant risk. I'm not saying you're wrong here, but I'm asking for the data. Are kids and young, healthy people dying at a significant clip right now? What are the numbers and how do they compare to the population?
     
  12. Indy

    Indy Pronoun Analyst

    I think that last part is a jump.
     
  13. Indy

    Indy Pronoun Analyst

    Are you vaccinated?
     
  14. Indy

    Indy Pronoun Analyst

    I'll obviously be frustrated. I'm not making an argument for people to not get vaccinated. I think everyone who can get vaccinated should get vaccinated and have even taken time out of my own busy schedule to talk with family and friends about why they should do so.

    How many people in the US have died from something other than COVID as a direct result of hospital's being too full with COVID patients to take them?
     
  15. Indy

    Indy Pronoun Analyst

    Not enough staff, or not enough beds? Not enough staff seems like it could easily be a different problem than not enough beds.
     
  16. Indy

    Indy Pronoun Analyst

    I'm assuming by "hey" you mean "they" and by "they" you mean "unvaccinated folks." If my assumptions are incorrect, let me know.

    No, unvaccinated folks are not controlling what people do.
     
  17. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    The problem is the same: can't get timely treatment.
     
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  18. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    Why do you think so?
     
  19. Indy

    Indy Pronoun Analyst

    But the cause is what's in question. If the cause is "we have 400 beds, and all 400 are full because 88% are being taken up by unvaccinated COVID patients," that's a very different thing than if the cause is "We are understaffed because we mandated the COVID vaccine and a not insignificant portion of our workforce quit."

    It doesn't even have to be because of a mandated vaccine. Being understaffed doesn't necessarily fall back to it being the fault of the unvaccinated that people can't receive the care they need.
     
  20. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    Because it is a highly contagious disease, it is actually not the same thing. Because had they not quit and not been vaccinated, it would have meant more beds were needed. Medical workers have disproportionately been sickened and killed by COVID. You may look that up. Many are quitting because of how dangerous they feel their job is, and because they are burned out and see that people still refuse to get vaccinated to end this.
     
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