Anyone Ever had a Mid-Life Crisis

Eternity? I can't understand it, so how can I make an informed choice to sacrifice it? I'm not angry at god and playing some game of chicken or looking to assert a moral high ground on the divine. I just don't think the premise of the being even makes sense. If he wanted me to believe, it would not be hard to do so for such a being. So either he doesn't exist or he doesn't exist as described or he is so profoundly twisted such that we are all effed no matter what.

 

Or they don't think he'd care?

 

Sigh... Which one float?

 

Describe what you see as everything looking like, 1,000 years after the second coming. What's Earth look like? What does humanity look like? What's going on with the billions who have died before?

 

Your statements are correct. There are end times prophecy.

 

You can understand eternity. It's something that doesn't end. It's infinite. It's you speaking with every person who ever lived, going over every millisecond of their lives, 100 times, and still having the rest of eternity to look forward to.

For some in the Christian faith, they say that you will stand before judgement, and that will be when you decide, and your decision then will determine whether you knew him or not. And you're saying at that moment, rather than assert a moral high ground, you'd kneel, because eternity is a long time.

 

We're not talking about prophecy. Do you believe that after the second coming, billions will eternally suffer?

 

Do you have a point float? You've read the scripture.

 

I made the point. You countered that it wasn't true. I asked you to explain. You declined, twice. And then you needled, on the third.

So yea, warhammer, I have a point, and its that I'm trying to figure out what yours is, since you don't like mine.

 

Not all Christianity, but that is the most common historic position in the western church.

A small subset of Christians -used to be a more substantial portion prior to the World Wars- believe that things are getting better and better and that the longer Jesus reigns from heaven, things will continue to get better until finally the whole creation will be renewed and even death will be done away with. So our hope is more this earthly than some ethereal future existence. And to me, this position is pretty easy to prove/deduce from scripture and seems to be slowly winning the day in higher Protestant (Presbyterian, Anglican, Lutheran) circles once again as well as in Eastern Orthodoxy. Admittedly, saying that to someone who doesn't believe it feels outlandish and even a little absurd but the whole story of Jesus is strange and absurd, and that's the basis of my beliefs.

Eternal conscious torment (both its nature and length) is very much disputed/debated right now. And given the vast number of different images (outer darkness, snuffing out, destruction, a prison where Christ gets preached and there may be a second chance, ceasing to exist, a shadowy place for spirits, a trash heap where things get burned up, a lake of fire) for what happens to the wicked dead in scripture, it's pretty danged speculative for a Christian to say that they know. Maybe the experience of the dead varies substantially? Or maybe there is a dose of human speculation in Scripture? Not very conservative of me but at some point if you look long enough at this stuff you have to relax some constraints for scripture to harmonize. You have to realize that the writers were grasping for images about the futility/devastation of a person existing (or maybe not) outside of God's grasp and goodness.

 

See, I don't mind your version of Christianity A-Smith, and I hope it becomes the dominate strain. But you're about the only person who I've ever heard speak about the after life in this manner. And not just here, but in other posts.

You're a lone figure in your beliefs. But to my belief system, I could not stand eternal happiness, if I thought someone else was in eternal pain. I like your Christianity, if the wicked simply cease to exist.

 

I would not submit to eternal torture for my honor, personal pride, or personal moral superiority, no. It would help no one.

 

Don't even get me started on what those Buddhists believe.

 

Do you plan on mentioning it some time?

 

I've heard reformed Jews speak in similar terms.

 

Why would you be sure that it would help no-one? What if your ultimate test is one of sacrifice?

 

Sure. Do you believe that after the second coming, billions will eternally suffer? If not, what do you believe? Describe it.

 

I'm speaking strictly of Christianity, not other beliefs.

 

Your position is I have an end times belief? Correct.

 

If that is the test, there is a tester. If a test is required, they are not omniscient. If a test is not required, they fully understand my thinking and, further, understand why I think that way-- rendering punishment to be based on whatever aspects of my experiences were based on my own choices which I will have already made and making my actions in that moment irrelevant, or at least already baked in.

If they are the sort of super being that would make me choose kneeling under duress, there is not a "winning" situation. What if your ultimate test is one of having the will to survive, and you chose torture?