CIA rain machine/raid on son tay

Discussion in 'The Thunderdome' started by OrangeEmpire, Jan 14, 2012.

  1. OrangeEmpire

    OrangeEmpire Take a chance, Custer did

    I apologize for not having links, OE is mobile, but OE is currently reading the shadow warriors series and one of the topics is the raid on son tay during the vietnam war. Officially by the govt the cia was blamed for several areas but one is the cias use of a rain machine that caused elevated river levels wgich could have led to the pwos being moved from the camp.

    Just makes you think about katrina and the massive mississippi rivee floods.

    Thoughrs?™
     
  2. IP

    IP Advanced Pruitt Apologetics Bot

    Let's just say that they did have a "rain machine." There are a few ways I could see one working. Why on earth would you need or choose to use it in VIETNAM?
     
  3. OrangeEmpire

    OrangeEmpire Take a chance, Custer did

    Logistics, moving material by river and dirt roads. Surprised it was admitted by the govt, whole raid was a blunder of intel by the cia, caused a major reorganization.
     
  4. IP

    IP Advanced Pruitt Apologetics Bot

    If you say so. Would stupid expensive to seed a bunch of clouds to make it rain 8 hours a day instead of 6.

    As far as anything about Katrina: no. Just no.
     
  5. OrangeEmpire

    OrangeEmpire Take a chance, Custer did

    ? If I say so?

    Katrina was blatant sarcasm
     
  6. OrangeEmpire

    OrangeEmpire Take a chance, Custer did

    Thoughts on agent orange?
     
  7. OrangeEmpire

    OrangeEmpire Take a chance, Custer did

    Thoughts on operation popeye?
     
  8. Volguy1971

    Volguy1971 Sith Lord

    Well, am not a fan of agent orange since my step dad only has 30% function of his heart because of that crap
     
  9. TennTradition

    TennTradition Super Moderator

    I think that PopEye largely met its strategic aims. It was a very interesting idea and something that had reasonably successful results. It was just cloud seeding, however. Plane+AgI = Rain Making Machine, I guess....

    As for hurting the POW recovery mission - PopEye was an ongoing mission. The flooding may have caused the relocation of the POWs, unfortunately, but it wasn't like they ran PopEye out of the blue and just happened to interfere with the POW rescue mission. It's unfortunate, obviously...
     
  10. TennTradition

    TennTradition Super Moderator

    Clearly a lot of problems with it...not sure who exactly is a fan.

    I actually work in the lab where one-half of the Agent Orange mixture was developed and piloted. Also, some Agent Orange production went on there as well.

    Agent Orange was a mixture of two phenoxyl herbicides. We actually still have a lot of uses for one of those two today (2,4-D). However, the other herbicide in the mixture had a problem. If you were not very careful during its manufacture, you could create dioxin, which is incredibly toxic. Now, this was known - and it was controlled for the most part. What happened from there I have no idea.

    OE - is your question whether the government actually asked for the "mistakes" to be made during production by Monsanto so that the dioxin would be in their herbicide and ultimately carry forward into the Agent Orange mixture? What I do know is that impurities can creep into any herbicide process very easily. The EPA monitors those very closely for US agriculture. However, the military was likely rushing production of Agent Orange and was not closely examining these very small impurities (such as 0.1%). So, if the production got off-whack and you started making dioxin at these very small levels, the main actives would still work like they were intended to (so field tests would look fine), but this very harmful contaminant would be hanging around.

    My 2 cents is that while dioxin was known to be an undesirable byproduct, just how undesirable was not fully appreciated and the process was not supposed to make it. Off-normal operation led to small amounts creeping into the formulation, and unfortunately, no one was monitoring impurities at those small levels. The problem went unnoticed until it was too late. But...that's just conjecture....I don't know what really happened.
     
  11. OrangeEmpire

    OrangeEmpire Take a chance, Custer did

    Good discussion.........kept waiting for an lg or gs response
     
  12. TennTradition

    TennTradition Super Moderator

    Don't think you'll get a gs response here....
     
  13. justingroves

    justingroves supermod

    I hate guns and rich people. You're all racists - lawgator

    How was that?
     
  14. TennTradition

    TennTradition Super Moderator

    You forgot to mention that cops can do no wrong...and that you hate rich people (for the second time)
     
  15. OrangeEmpire

    OrangeEmpire Take a chance, Custer did

    No bigot.............white devil...........jive turkey lol
     
  16. IP

    IP Advanced Pruitt Apologetics Bot

    How much above normal rainfall was really created, though? We're talking about a very, very wet place to begin with.
     
  17. TennTradition

    TennTradition Super Moderator

    I think that they basically have a monsoon season and the idea was to try to extend it by a couple of months more. Obviously the winds that brought in the rains would have been gone, but cloud seeding was apparently somewhat successful in extending the rains and making for some forceful rains to slow down travel (mud slides, floods, etc.).
     
  18. IP

    IP Advanced Pruitt Apologetics Bot

    Interesting. Yes, I could see how that would work in extending the season by a bit.
     

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