Let's Talk Football Strategy... JayVols, Volst53, all comers

Discussion in 'Vols Football' started by volfanjo, Jan 12, 2012.

  1. volfanjo

    volfanjo Chieftain

    Buddy Green is interviewing tomorrow and his claim to fame is the 2-4-5 defense, a variation of a 3-4, and from what I can gather, essentially a nickel formation. I believe this is something Dom Capers has tinkered with when he was with the Panthers and later the Packers. What are your thoughts? And more to the point, is this a defense one would turn to based on "personnel"... not really a preference, but a necessity, given the constraints at Navy?

    This reminds me of the famous "prowler" packages that many coaches have, am I wrong? Take it away anyone that wants to contribute.
  2. volfanbill

    volfanbill Active Member

    how dare you try to divert the full meltdown and panic mode this board is quickly falling into despite the constant denial with real football talk. What do you think this is?
  3. LawVol13

    LawVol13 Chieftain

    Definitely not a football strategist, but I've got a question for Joe and the rest of the football guys. Is the 2-4-5 not a recipe for disaster in the SEC? Is it not vulnerable against the run?
  4. alumvol08

    alumvol08 Active Member

    Has he ran this defense everywhere or just at Navy?
  5. kptvol

    kptvol Super Moderator

    Sunseri and Greene are the top candidates right now, I guess. Seems Dooley wants to get away from the 4-3. Not sure it's a smart idea to make such a radical change in a make or break year.
  6. LawVol13

    LawVol13 Chieftain

  7. LawVol13

    LawVol13 Chieftain

    Are we sure Sunseri's a 3-4 guy? And, based on some of the things I was reading, I don't believe Green has run the 2-4-5 his entire career, so I guess it's possible he's not incapable of running 4-3.
  8. kptvol

    kptvol Super Moderator

    I just assumed we'd want Sunseri to run a Saban defense.

    I'd rather see what Maggitt and AJ can do with a little continuity and a veteran in Herman Lathers on the field with them.
  9. volfanjo

    volfanjo Chieftain

    Good question. I think that is everyone's initial take. But the "5" in this scenario would include one, or perhaps, two defensive backs/hybrid players who play close to the line of scrimmage and turn the play back inside. It protects the edge, so to speak, which is good if you don't have speed... i.e., Navy. I have seen this done in high school to some success. But once again, I don't want to speak too out of turn on this.
  10. LawVol13

    LawVol13 Chieftain

    You're probably right. Was just wanting to see if someone had any insight as to if he's open to other alignments.
  11. volfanjo

    volfanjo Chieftain

    My understanding is it evolved over time. He has a long career. I imagine he has coached it all.
  12. kptvol

    kptvol Super Moderator

    Still feels to me like Bama's OL would carve that up for Lacy.
  13. LawVol13

    LawVol13 Chieftain

    I'm a basketball guy, but this seems like an alignment that you would run when you don't have the players to compete running a traditional defense. It'd be akin to some gimmicky zone defense or pressing system in basketball. Those rarely win consistently or win championships. Definitely could be wrong, but this just seems like a gimmick defense that an SEC team would just annihilate by running right at us.
  14. volfanjo

    volfanjo Chieftain

    Unless we're using the 4-4-5 alignment from the 2010 LSU game I'm pretty sure they'll do that anyway.
  15. kptvol

    kptvol Super Moderator

    We did an admirable job slowing down Richardson until McCarron ripped us to pieces.
  16. volfanjo

    volfanjo Chieftain

    Courtesy of one Marsalis Teague.
  17. CardinalVol

    CardinalVol Uncultured, non-diverse mod

    I will honestly say I don't know the first thing about green, but I have become a very big fan of the 3-4 courtesy of capers.

    My three initial thoughts on this are.

    1 lathers, johnson and maggit blitzing out of this make my ears perk up, esp from the edge.

    2 man I wish jackson could be reinstated to serve as woodson does in capers scheme

    3 I do not think we have the current personnel up front to pull this off. Unless one of these recruits can fill it or couch steps up big time, that scares me.

    All that said, the 3-4 can be a fun and very effective defense. At this point, to quote isaiah thomas, "its so crazy, it just might work."
  18. justingroves

    justingroves supermod

    Depends on how big the 4 are. It creates all kinds of confusion in the blocking scheme.
  19. JayVols

    JayVols Walleye Catchin' Moderator

    Sorry, just saw this. I am not going to pretend that I know a whole lot about this defense as a base. Let me be clear off the bat- I really don't. I have done some reading on it since seeing this posted, though. From what I've seen, it puts me in mind of a drop end 50 in a way, but instead of having 1 linebacker play a front position, you have 2 LBs that gives you a 4 man front for all intents and purposes. As a base defense instead of a nickel package, it does seem to be designed for pressure. You can have pretty much any 2 of your LBs coming from any direction. Surprise factor. That may work against more undisciplined OLs, but a simple zone scheme looks to me like it could take care of most confusion. My 1st and not well educated thought is that an experienced and disciplined OL would handle this with little to no problem.

    1. I would say that you need 2 absolute studs in the middle to run this- not guys that get blown off the ball at all because any of that is going to royally screw with your LBs scraping angles. Pretty sure we don't have them.
    2. You would need some interior LBs with a little lead in their pencil to help compensate for the lack of big bodies. We could be ok here if Santos comes.
    3. You would need some well disciplined OLBs to help on contain that can run, have the size to pass rush a OT, and also be able to play an off tackle power with pulling guards, TEs, FBs, or OTs. These guys are not very common.

    My initial thought is that I'm torn. I'm not very fond of giving up (what I perceive) as traditional gap responsibility defense. It seems to rely on speed to overcome size against the run game. We all know that in the SEC, many OLs have size AND speed, at least for 300+ pounders. The part that makes my ears perk up a bit is the ability to bring lights out pressure from anywhere across the D. I love pressure and blitzes. This D could afford an immensely large number of blitzes without totally compromising your coverage schemes. In the end, I really question the viability of this D in a run oriented conference. I see it as a possibility against a wide open gunslinging offense that only attempts to tokenly run the ball to keep the D honest. Just my take after about 10 minutes of looking at it. Take it with a grain of salt.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2012
  20. govols74n

    govols74n New Member

    Yeah seems like a last choice defense to me....also I did read somewhere that sunseri is a 3-4 guy, and that it takes 2 yrs to change over to a decent 3-4 from 4-3 due to the types of players neefed etc.....i.e. Giant nose tackle....

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