Fair points on mandates. Maybe I reached too far… I took this to be the issue at hand - is Indy anti-vax because he opposes a mandated COVID-19 vaccine. Maybe he also opposes MMR mandates. I think those are different discussions. Is someone anti-vax because they don’t think everyone should be mandated to have a CV-19 vaccine (or to work at an employer of 100+, etc)?
I guess he is anti-mandate, which is understandable after his man date with Sab. But seriously, I don't know, seems like being against medical mandates for a vaccine is antivax. I am encouraged people don't want to be labeled as such.
Those who are against mandates are against them for reasons that aren't logical, so yea. Let's look at it like this, if there was something that you could do to someone else, that could hospitalize or kill them, we'd say, as a society, you can't do it. Let's use throwing a punch as an example. If I punch you in the head, it might fracture your jaw, and you'll need to go to the hospital and get a feeding tube, and spend a few thousand dollars after insurance, at worst. I might get lucky and kill you, because of some physiology you have. Odds are, it's just going to be annoying. We still say you shouldn't punch people. We have a keep your hands to your self mandate. But change punch to a sneeze, and all of a sudden we're like "can't stop people from living their life." Yea, we can. Take every effort to not punch people. Take every effort to not transmit infectious diseases. If you don't want to vaccinate for the shingles. That's on you. If you don't want to vaccinate for tetanus, that's on you. If you don't want to vaccinate for an infectious disease, that's on society, not the individual, because the individual spreads it, like punches.
I immediately think about the conversations in my company. I’ve spoken with folks that have struggled with mandating this vaccine. They are vaccinated. They praise vaccination from the rooftop when in front of the camera or in their bulletins. But they also talk about the legitimate fear in some employees eyes when taking about the vaccine and of the ethics of the mandate. I think struggling with that and coming down on the side of no mandate doesn’t seem very anti-vax.
CNN takes another ethics hit just days after Cuomo.... Jussie Smollett reveals CNN's Don Lemon warned him via text in 2019 that cops didn't believe his account of attack... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...n-warned-text-cops-didnt-believe-account.html
Aren't they finding that breakthrough infections are even more common with Omicron? If breakthrough infections are becoming more and more common, doesn't a vaccine mandate make less and less sense? https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea... showed a rate,in 100 fully vaccinated people. Also, isn't it becoming more and more clear that even if an entire country vaccinates to a significantly high percentage, they're still not safe as long as a large portion of the rest of the world remains unvaccinated?
The main value of the vaccine is it greatly lowers risk of death/death rate. If you look at the death rate, it has dramatically reduced (not death rate, not deaths) generally, and if you look at vaccinated vs unvaccinated, it is an order of magnitude different despite the age demographics who get vaccinated skewing older.
Honestly, he doesn't need a show either. What if they just had in depth news and background discussion for 2 hours every night? Instead of opinion/commentary on the news?
I get that, but if the unvaccinated people dying chose not to get vaccinated, isn't that ultimately on them? The mandate was supposed to be about forcing a decision on one person to protect other people, not forcing a decision on one person to protect that one person.
No, and no. A breakthrough infection doesn't mean anything in and of itself. What is important is: 1) does the vaccinated individual spread it, at a high rate, to other vaccinated. Because if not, then a breakthrough infection is stalled. And a stalled infectious disease is not a transmitting infectious disease. And 2) does the breakthrough infection lead to as high a rate of morbidity and mortality. Because if not, then a breakthrough infection isn't as dangerous. Until both of these things are proven false, vaccine mandates are as useful as ever. As to the rest of the world being unvaccainted... 1 and 2 are both still in play. But the vast majority of the US doesn't deal with the rest of the world. So think of it like 7 degrees from a foreign country, and in the middle of that 7 degrees is item 1 and 2, which, if one or the other is still in play, then it doesn't matter about the rest of the world, since any infection would stall or not cause morbidity or mortality at a significant clip.
No, it isn't on them, because they can still spread it, mutate it and screw it up for those that are vaccinated. The fact that their spread might not have much of an impact doesn't excuse them. They still had the impact that they had. The fact that my punch didn't hurt doesn't mean I should be able to punch.
1. Can vaccinated individuals with breakthrough cases spread at a "high rate?" You seem to be suggesting they can't, but I've read/heard that early signs of Omicron suggest that they can. 2. I agree that the vaccines hold up well against hospitalization and death. It's why I don't mind going out in public. Even if I get a breakthrough infection, I'm vaccinated, which means I'm very unlikely to suffer severe disease. It doesn't matter if the vast majority of the US deals with the rest of the world if breakthrough infections and high rate vaccinated spreaders are more common. You mention people mutating it in your next post. Even if we are 100% vaccinated, the rest of the world will not be. Even if we aren't mutating it, the rest of the world will be. And if the rest of the world is mutating it, and the mutations are able to get past the vaccine more easily than previous variants, then they will still hit us, regardless of whether we mandate a vaccine or not.
I guess Georgia’s fight to steal our water has taken a turn for the worse. Hope Alabama and Mississippi don’t take up their fight, but if they do, sounds like we will be ready. https://www.wvlt.tv/2021/12/07/gov-...ee-national-guard-deployment-southern-border/
@Indy let's do a thought experiment. Suppose you had 100 people. 50 vaccinated, 50 not. They are all exposed to the pathogen. 10 vaccinated get sick and 1 of them dies. 30 unvaccinated get sick and 5 of them die. Afterward, 20 unvaccinated decide to get vaccinated. So now we have 69 vaccinated people. Nice. And we have 25 unvaccinated people. A variant comes along. All people are again exposed. 14 vaccinated get sick and none die. 15 unvaccinated people get sick and 2 die. In this scenario, the number of vaccinated people getting sick is increasing. But why? The rate is the same. The population of vaccinated is growing while the population of unvaccinated is decreasing, thus even at a diminished risk/rate, the number of "breakthroughs" grows. The vaccine in this thought experiment is very effective, and the effect is constant in both exposures. The only thing that changed was more of the total population got vaccinated. Hope this helps.
