Tee Martin Poll

Discussion in 'Vols Football' started by kptvol, Feb 27, 2012.

  1. kptvol

    kptvol Super Moderator

    Govolsxtra being terrible and asking horrible questions.


    Thankfully most are voting that Tee made the right choice. Still embarrassed that over 20% lied and said they'd have turned down a big raise for a huge upward move.
  2. volfanjo

    volfanjo Chieftain

    What is weird is that hatred for Kentucky should outweigh any Lane Kiffin antipathy. Am I right?
  3. justingroves

    justingroves supermod

    I think you are.
  4. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    Here's an interesting dynamic that most won't realize....and I don't think that the KNS people are crafty enough to have intentionally done this, for sure.

    While the poll is about Tee.....wouldn't it also apply to Kiffin, too?

    In other words, if 80% of respondents believe that Tee made the right move for the prestige / pay raise / career advancement.....arent we also vindicating Kiffin, too, as those were the same reasons he left Knoxville.

    Simply, why was it ok for Tee, but made Kiffin the Great Satan?
  5. volfanjo

    volfanjo Chieftain

    It's simple. Tee is a revered hero with a ring and Kiffin pulled the rug out from underneath us after a promising beginning. Their meaning to the UT program is different.

    And Tee left Kentucky for the job, not UT, if we are being technical.
  6. alumvol08

    alumvol08 Active Member

    Tee also didn't leave right before signing day and try to sway a large number of recruits to sign with USC right after he left. I see what you're saying but, but I think the situation with Tee is pretty different. It might be more similar to a situation where Kiffin had left us after signing day to coach for an NFL team on the verge of winning a super bowl.
  7. LawVol13

    LawVol13 Chieftain

    That's the key distinction. That's a [penis] move. There's no other way to spin it; that's why I hope Kiffin fails. That's what makes it different than just a coach taking another job. He not only takes another job, but he shits on the school that gave him an opportunity by trying to completely strip the recruiting class.
  8. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    All valid points, but regardless of the timing, ties to the program, who left "X" school for another etc., the fact remains that Tee left Kentucky for the exact same reasons that Kiffin left Tennessee.

    As Tennessee fans, we hate Kiffin for not only leaving, but how and when he did it, and what it did to the program....and we love Tee because of what he did here, and we want what's best for him. So, of course, we naturally "feel" better about the reasons that Tee left, than we do Kiffin.

    That we can hate Kiffin and love Tee is entirely understandable, given the respective circumstances of each.

    But the point I'm making is that they both went to USC for nearly the exact same reasons, and it seems difficult to me to have it both ways - where one is reviled and the other lauded - at least when viewed reasonably and stripped of its emotional elements.

    Or here's another way to say it: for anyone other than Tennessee fans, they both moved to USC for the advancement of their careers and to enjoy what they believed to be more opportunities and a greater competitive advantage.

    We delineate between the two because Kiffin left us, not because he was wrong in doing it.
  9. A-Smith

    A-Smith Chieftain

    My hatred for UK does, that's for sure.
  10. A-Smith

    A-Smith Chieftain

    Going from UT to USC might be a setp up in this here 21st century. But going from Ky to USC is a quantum leap regardless of era, trends etc. There is simply no reason to stay in that KY rat's nest.
  11. warhammer

    warhammer Chieftain

    It's a good move for Tee. Comparing moving from KY to USC as an assistant to leaving TN to go to USC as the head coach and calling them equal is more than a stretch. Tee's opportunity represented a quantum leap forward in prestige, job security, and pay (I am guessing here). Kiffin's move provided a better opportunity to win quickly, better recruiting base, and some other advantages, but I don't think anyone wearing orange or not would call it the slam-dunk choice KY to USC was.
  12. alumvol08

    alumvol08 Active Member

    It might better serve your argument to take the other factors out of it, but you can't honestly and fairly compare it if you don't keep those factors in. You want to look at it in a vacuum of career advancement and you can't do that if you want a real comparison between the two moves.
  13. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    There are innumerous advantages that could be presented for Kentucky, too: they play in the SEC, closer to more fertile recruiting grounds, etc. I'm not saying that USC isn't going to be an absolute run-away in that comparison....but Kentucky is not entirely bereft of reasons to stay.

    Just like there is for staying put at Tennessee, too.

    However, and with all of that being said, neither was deemed comparable to what USC offered, respectively, and in fact, were deemed as being "lesser", instead.

    I'd prefer that we just say that we didn't like when Kiffin did it because we were scorned in that deal, but to argue that it's somehow different or more acceptable than Tee going for the exact same reasons seems, well, convenient at best.
  14. justingroves

    justingroves supermod

    To be honest, I would have expected the Dooley to re recruit his EE's to Tennessee if he had not came from a shithole school. It is dirty as hell but it's legal.
  15. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    Fair enough.

    I won't argue that a Tennessee to USC jump is smaller than one made from KY. How could you? But it was sizable enough that neither seemed to need much deliberation, when presented with the choice.

    What I'm arguing is not the distance which they jumped - but why. And the reasons are inarguably the same. So, anyone who thinks that Tee made a good move, but Kiffin didn't, or that both erred, seems unreasonable and illogical to me.
  16. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    Again, it's ok if you're doing it to someone else, but not if they do it to you.

    And some on here who were close to the situation say that Kiffin's repeated denials in calling EE's was in fact true - and that accounts to that effect were fabricated and leaked in order to justify the unilateral policy of the AD to refuse their leaving, even if they expressed a desire to do so, even if only hours (minutes, even) after the midnight deadline where such would have been possible, but likely without penalty.

    Some would assert that, and could speak to it more clearly and accurately than I, should they wish to do so.

    Look - I'm not carrying Kiffin's water - my desire that he jumps up his own ass is well-documented, and long-lasting. But I'm not going to go along with any argument which requires the sacrificing of my intellectual integrity in order to do so.

    It can't be "right" when Tee does it, and "wrong" when Kiffin did it, when both did so for the exact same reasons.
  17. LawVol13

    LawVol13 Chieftain

    It may just be sour grapes from me, but that's what bothered me most about the Kiffin departure.
  18. justingroves

    justingroves supermod

    It wasn't near as bad as reported. If he were really offering spots to guys he recruited don't you think at least one would have wound up at USC?
  19. alumvol08

    alumvol08 Active Member

    Again, you're comparing two completely different situations and trying to pretend they're the same.

    1) Timing of the leaving. Kiffin left us at, almost, the worst time possible. He then proceeded to try and raid our recruiting class. Whether what he did was legal or ethical is irrelevant to the fact that it hurt TN. Tee leaving KY did no damage to their recruiting class this year. Additionally, KY has an entire year to have someone else recruit anyone that Tee was responsible for in the 2013 class.
    2) Leaving as a head coach is obviously different than a position coach and therefore does more harm to the program that you are leaving. Both left to take the same position, but it is much easier to replace a position coach without harming a program than it is to replace the head coach.
    3) While Kiffin did leave to take his dream job, it wasn't as big a difference as going from KY to USC. Regardless of the loss to KY this year, the overall state of KY football isn't anywhere near what TN is. Anyone who has the opportunity to take a lateral or better move from KY to USC does it in a heart beat. (Unless you are a KY alumni or have some other connection).

    While both went to USC to advance their careers, I think it is naive to act like both are exactly the same situation and should thus be viewed in the same light.
  20. warhammer

    warhammer Chieftain

    I don't think you can distill it down quite that far. It's very hard to take the person out of the decision. Using your logic, would any coach at Tennessee make the same decision given the same options at the same point in history? Likewise, would Kiffin have left for any vacancy that could be argued to present similar opportunities? I am not saying you are wrong. I just don't think you can take the person preferences out of the decisions that were made. Kiffin would likely have left for an equal USC situation, and Tee might not have left for USC for an equal opportunity (even though I can't imagine a world where KY>=USC in football).

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