Being White is a Privilege...

Because wealth is passed down from one generation to the next

 

I'm with you Law. Uni, with all due respect, you're attitude is not helping your cause. It doesn't matter that you've lived here a while. You shit on folks that have experienced life in rural Appalachia their whole lives. Their families have lived the life of rural Appalachia for generations. I am one of such folk. I disagree with the political slant of most of the board. This isn't a political argument. It's a social argument, and you telling folks that have been immersed in that culture their entire lives that they are full of shit comes off as elitist and closed minded, intentional or not. You are a product of a vastly different social structure in the upper mid-west. Your years here, mostly in cities in Appalachia from my understanding, can't give you the insight of someone that the clannish isolated nature of rural Appalachia has been ingrained upon. There are numerous books about the subject. Even so, a book is no substitute for living the culture. They're are Appalachian stereotypes that have hurt real people. Hell, folks outside the area automatically deduct 25 IQ points when they hear the accent. I have been to NY where I was asked (not as a joke) did we have shoes. The TVA was created by the federal gov't in the 1930's to bring the area out of those clannish, isolated, and perceived backward way of life. That's not much before the Civil Rights Movement. So, yes, there is relevance in comparing Appalachian culture to some struggles/obstacles of African-Americans.

Not trying to be an asshole at all, but if you would just listen to folks that have deep roots in rural Appalachian culture you might learn something. You've lived here. We've lived the culture our entire lives. There's a way to disagree without being disagreeable. If you want folks to listen to and respect your views, you must be willing to do the same. Even if they are counter to your own. You're a very intelligent guy, no doubt. But, you don't know everything. Your shitting on folks that are experts in the rural Appalachian experience would be akin to one of us doing the same to you over what the culture is like in Wisconsin after spending a little time there. It is after all just a bunch of cheese eating, beer making/drinking, nasally speaking folks that do nothing but sit around and [itch bay] about how [uck fay]ing cold it is and how their governor has screwed over every public employee while wearing a wedge-shaped piece of cheese made out of foam on their heads while they worship all that is the Packers, right?

 

Yes. Wealth or lack thereof is more of a determination of advantage/disadvantage than race in 2012.

 

Which, again, points to the obvious fact that IP and Unimane Luther King continue to raise that systemic racism in the past has hurt the generational accumulation of wealth by blacks. Today, however, I would submit that poor African Americans, middle class African Americans, and upper class African Americans have real systemic advantages for gaining wealth and getting out of poverty. So, while African Americans may still be hampered by the blatant systemic racism of 50 years ago, affirmative action programs and the like have provided a way out, a way out that poor white kids don't have. So, today, I don't think the "white privilege" exists at all in some demographics but still may in limited circumstances.

 

Couldn't have been said any better, Jay.

 

No, LawVol. It's statistics. You're pointing at an outlier to justify discarding the mean. It isn't logical. You yourself have said that blacks tend to be poorer. You yourself say wealth is the biggest single factor (which I whole-heartedly agree with). Finding a group of 50,000 very poor white people out of 300 million that was INCLUDED in the pool doesn't change the statistical data. We both know it is more complex than skin color. Unimane never said it was simple. The pattern is undeniable. You acknowledge it.

 

So now you think there is a basis for affirmative action? I thought you said you could make a case they were not necessary.

I think we are coming to some level of agreement. I don't think "white privilege" is all-pervasive by any means. I do think it exists, even if mostly as economic vestiges of decades-past realities.

 

Agreed. This is the basis of the reasoning behind the need for affirmative action. It is an extension, perhaps an over-extension, of the Civil Rights movement. To me, it is the only tenable way to deliver a sort of "reparations" to people of groups previously exploited. To many of you from what I gather, it is not any more tenable than outright reparations.

I don't know what the best way to deal with the situation is. I agree with law that it is improving. But I am adamantly sure that the situation exists.

 

If you want to make it in this country and have that bulldog mentality of holding on and [uck fay]ing it for all its worth, you can make something of yourself in this country.

I don't care if you're black, yellow, brown, white, or even a ginger. It might not be easy but that's life.

 

I think an argument can be made that today, it isn't needed. I meant to convey, and obviously failed, that it has helped to rectify the systemic disadvantages of the past. Now, it's almost counter-productive to the cause. I didn't make that clear in my earlier post. My fault.

 

I don't have an issue with affirmative action, but I do with the welfare system.

 

No, I think I must be doing a poor job of conveying my point. So, I'll try to make it clearer. Yes, the statistics show that blacks are, on average, poorer than whites across the United States. That's what the statistical data shows, and obviously, that is irrefutable. What can not be drawn from the data is that every single white person is privileged because they're white (Unimane says that's untrue, so hopefully you don't agree with him on that). What can be drawn is that rich people are privileged and the same can be said for rich black people. And, it's not a group of 50,000 very poor white people. It's much bigger, and they are less privileged than anyone, which I used to prove my point that you simply cannot say, based on stats, that every white person is privileged. As you can see with this article, Appalachian people have nearly the same issues that poor black communities have.

http://www.app-pov-proj.org/igive.html

 

I do wonder what the end-game of it is. It obviously has to end at some point and as far as I know there has never been a metric or "goal" described in any specific way.

 

I really don't know. I think, unfortunately, that many times it allows unqualified African Americans into educational programs that they really don't have the capabilities to succeed in just as a white person with the same qualifications wouldn't have been able to succeed and weren't admitted because of that.

 

I do think being non-white is an extra impediment even if only marginally so in the case of extreme poverty. I am unable to prove that notion to you. This sort of social stuff isn't really my strength in debating. I do see what you mean about the parallels of Appalachians and the black poor. But if an Appalachian man picked up and moved to Ohio and got a job bagging groceries, he could conceivably eventually move up to a management position and aside from his accent (which can change) he would be just another guy in Ohio. A person's skin color is the first thing we see and doesn't change aside from the obvious Micheal Jackson jokes. And statistics show a black person who bags groceries is much less likely to ever be considered for management.

Can it be done? Can they make it? Of course. Hell, we both know most middle class white people are lazy as [uck fay] and still manage to hold their economic ground. As a group though, blacks are starting from a place where holding your ground means staying near the bottom.

 

I've seen that sort of thing first hand. It's incredibly pervasive in academia. At the same time, a faculty/graduate student population of all white males isn't reflective of society. And every once in awhile, such an action allows someone to improve themselves and succeed despite whatever social impediment they may or may not have inherited.

 

Conceivably that might be the case. I don't think that's reality for about 99.9% of Appalachian people in extreme poverty. They're not going to pick up and leave because they wouldn't have the money to get to Ohio.

 

Agreed. I, however, think that, at least in law school, we had plenty of African Americans who didn't need affirmative action to get in and were fantastic students. But, it's always very obvious who was admitted due to affirmative action, and it's unfair to them. I think I read somewhere that a black female had around a 2.5 undergrad GPA and a 145 on the LSAT and was admitted to UT Law School and given a $10,000 per year scholarship. A white woman, with those same qualifications is laughed at when she applies because, obviously, she has little to no chance to succeed.

 

That's the way I look at it.

I grew up dirt poor in a single wide trailer until a tornado blew it off the piers. We managed to get a double wide with the insurance money (woo hoo!).

I'm now a college graduate that owns a small business. I laugh at excuses people make when it comes to why they didn't amount to shit.

There are some disadvantages to being born poor and black. However, being born poor and white is pretty much the same damn thing. A middle class family, regardless of race, is pretty much even now. 20 years ago? No they weren't.

 

presumably, at some point you're going to tell us why the spread exists and then you're going to tell us why the divide continues, even as it tightens across some races and not others. If I'm seeing this right, you're going to eventually tell us that economic help has been nice, but woefully insufficient. If I know you right, you're never going to get to the point that our pandering has exacerbated the financial divide rather than narrow it.

IMO, you'd do well to recognize that self determination is the part that our tossing money at the problem has undermined and has only served to create a dependent group of citizens.

Unfortunately, the mindset that this is the "fault" of anyone continues to provide a litany of excuses for anyone inclined to wallow in the situation. It's unfortunate that "social workers" feel good about themselves in wholly making the problem worse.