The Indy Talks To Himself (NBA) Thread.

This aged well

https://thespun.com/nba/boston-celt...there-are-17-players-better-than-jayson-tatum

 

Which players would you have disagreed with on March 15th? Which players do you disagree with now?

Tatum hasn’t done anything yet. He played at an MVP level for the second half of the season and is up 3-0 on the 7 seed in the first round of the playoffs.

Tatum is playing great, but you probably should have held off on this post until at least the conference finals.

 

I understand, it's tough realizing your hero is just another talking head. Tatum has been top 10 this season and it's not up for debate, which is why he'll be First Team All-NBA.

 

Lol, what’s this “this season” shit? Did Wright add that qualifier, or are you imposing it on him now and hoping people don’t read the article? Wright listed Kawhi, who played 0 games this season, above Tatum, so he is very clearly not talking about just this season.

His list is in the article. Pick the players you disagree with.

 

My favorite is the way Indy, after arguing until he's blue in the face that Harden is worse than the same Kyrie Irving Tatum is destroying, now has to argue Harden > Tatum because Nick Wright said so.

 

To be clear, you are saying he needs to lead a team to the conference finals for the third time in five seasons in order to catch Mitchell or Ja who haven't been there once? Lol

 

I’m saying you are shooting your shot a bit early. Every player you’ve mentioned (Harden, Ja, Mitchell) is still in the playoffs. And are we just going to pretend Tatum and the Celtics weren't the 7 seed with a .500 record just last year and gentleman swept out of the first round?

What is your position? That Tatum was better than number 18 at the 3/15 mark? If that’s your argument, I’m not going to disagree with you. There are a number of guys on that list you could compare Tatum to and go either way. If I remember correctly, Wright was responding (on that podcast) to people saying Tatum is top 10. He said "No, he's not top 10," and then followed it up by putting him at 18.

So if you're argument is "He's top 10," I disagree with you. If your argument is "he's better than 18," then that's fine. I wouldn't put him ahead of Harden despite Harden's recent struggles. It's a toss up between him and Mitchell (both 3 time all stars, both with playoff and regular season success). I've got no issue with putting him above Ja.

But if your response to Nick Wright saying he is Top 18 is "Nah man, he's Top 15," I don't even know why we are wasting our time.

 

Lol point to it. And let's not take anything out of context with this one, if you don't mind.

If I recall correctly, my stances on Harden were:

• That he was out on the Nets, so they had to trade him.
• That Simmons may actually be a better fit because he gives them a boost defensively, can distribute close to as well as Harden, and that they don't need him to shoot because they have Kyrie and Durant.
• That Harden has also struggled in big moments in the postseason.

Harden's resume still far outclasses Tatum's, even despite his recent struggles. Not sure you're going to get very far with an argument that Tatum is a better player than Harden, unless you're limiting it to being within a single season.

 

Not sure he's better than Kyrie but he's definitely better than Tatum lolol

 

He's top 10. Generally speaking there isn't really anyone, other than maybe a center or two in the lean center years, that makes First Team All-NBA and isn't top 10 at the time.

 

You’re going to have to be specific at some point. You keep responding to a take/article that did not limit itself to “this season” by pointing to stuff from just this season

If you’re saying he was a top 10 player in the NBA this season, okay, sure. That’s a stance not worth debating. The case exists.

If you’re saying he’s a top 10 player in the NBA right now, I don’t agree with you.

Giannis
KD
Bron
Steph
Embiid
Jokic
Kawhi
Luka
AD
Dame

They’re all ahead of him, and I don’t think there’s much of a debate to the contrary.

 

That post doesn’t support you nearly as much as you so obviously think it does. It literally opens with “they have legitimate concerns about him not wanting to be there.”

It’s not a 1 v 1 comparison of Kyrie and Harden as players at that point in their careers, independent of team, supporting cast, opponent, etc.

Harden wasn’t a fit on the Nets, and he wasn’t trying to be a fit on the Nets. Those sorts of things aren’t a consideration in discussions of “who are the top 15 players in the NBA.”

 

If Tatum wasn’t in your Top 10 players in the NBA going into the 2021-2022 season, then he probably shouldn’t be there now. A great regular season isn’t enough to push guys in or out of that sort of list. Lists like this don’t ebb and flow like the all-nba teams from season to season.

 

"Are we sure he's better than healthy Kyrie" (who wasn't on your hero's list) to "he's definitely better than Tatum" says exactly what any reader would imagine it says

 

Lol at AD and Dame, and "not much of a debate to the contrary" when that exact debate resulted in Wright's terrible hot take

 

AD? Are you high? He won a title 2 years ago and has battled injury each of the last two seasons. You saying his name doesn’t mean there’s an argument to be had.

And yeah, Dame as well. It’s not close man. And there are probably at least 2-3 others I’d put ahead of Tatum as well.

The Celtics were a .500 team and the 7 seed last season. They were 25-25 through 50 games this season. People were talking about how they needed to break up Tatum and Brown. Tatum (and they) was outstanding after that, and he will be rewarded by making the all NBA team. If he can make big things happen in the postseason, there may be more to say.

Again, if you say he’s been a top 10 player this year, I won’t argue with you. But top 10 in the NBA in general? You’re jumping the gun.

 

They aren’t the same conversation, man. Talking about which of 2 players fits better with a specific team is not the same as discussing top 15 players.

You were making a case for trading Kyrie over Harden, and it made no sense. And, again, anyone without an agenda reads that conversation and sees that I’m clearly taking Harden’s OBVIOUS desire to get out of Brooklyn into consideration when comparing his play to that of Kyrie.

It’s too early to put Tatum above Harden. It may not be for long, as they both seem to be trending pretty strong in the opposite directions. But we aren’t there yet. And Harden wasn’t even in my top 10.

 

Coming into this season:

https://www.si.com/nba/2021/09/22/r...-2022-damian-lillard-paul-george-jayson-tatum

SI had him 13.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/...-james-for-no-1-any-rookies-make-the-cut/amp/

CBS had him 12th

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/interactive/2021/nba-top-100-players-2022/

Washington Post had him 13th, and that’s even with Kawhi at 15th.

https://thegameday.com/41847/article/2021-nba-top-100-players-2022/

This site had him 12th.

https://sportsnaut.com/best-nba-players-right-now/amp/

This site had him 12th

And half of those had him above Jimmy Butler, which I wouldn’t agree with.

So if he’s not top 10 coming into this season, but he’s top 10 now, that tells me you’re putting WAAAAY to much value on one regular season.

 

Do you follow the NBA at all beyond the Lakers and Nick Wright? I agree, there's a pretty strong consensus that Dame vs. Tatum isn't close and it's not in the direction you think it is. AD is never healthy, a team with him as the best player is never any good and he wasn't that great this season when he did play. Harden over Tatum is a joke and I'm higher on Harden than most are.

 

Lol speaking of not making the point you want it to, those sites had him 12th when he had never been even second team and now, after his best season by a mile with a team that has been the league's best this calendar year, he hasn't come close to moving up 2 spots? Please keep digging