Discussion in 'Vols Football' started by WM, Jan 3, 2012.

  1. WM

    WM Active Member

    I really want to see some serious discussion in the thread about what is the big draw with Gruden on coaching vacancies.
    I got to live in the sports town where i saw firsthand the meltdown of the season that lead to his firing. The players who absolutely hated playing for him. His denial of internal issues and stubbornness to adapt to turmoil in the locker room. His habit of throwing everyone but himself under the bus reminded me of a certain somebody that gets mentioned alot on this site. With the exception of the AFC Championship game in Oakland and the Super Bowl run in Tampa, he really had some shit years where the team just quit playing by week 10.

    I'm not saying he is a bad coach, just this Bill Brasky status always perplexed me. So please hit me with some knowledge 8th.
  2. kptvol

    kptvol Super Moderator

    He knows him some offense. My concern is that even in the NFL he struggled to find guys that could run his system. He'd have to scale back drastically.

    A plus for him is that, like Kiffin, he seems to not mind working twenty hours a day.
  3. volfanjo

    volfanjo Chieftain

    I think I can answer this:

    1. He is young and good looking
    2. His wife was a UT cheerleader
    3. He once was a GA on Majors staff
    4. He has a Super Bowl ring

    That's what I got.

    (FWIW, his brother has done an absolutely incredible job with Andy Dalton this year. I am a believer in Jay Gruden for sure).
  4. dknash

    dknash Chieftain

    I think a bit of nostalgia from the Kiffin hire, with Gruden as the (unrealistic) road not taken. Also comes from the NFL like Saban (and, uh... starts with a K...). Not sure the hype is very analytical, though that's not to say that he'd be a bad hire.
  5. JohnnyQuickkick

    JohnnyQuickkick Calcio correspondent

    5. Don't forget that property in Jefferson County.
  6. hatvol96

    hatvol96 Well-Known Member

    Remind me how well things have gone for the Raiders and Bucs after he left. Tampa ownership might be among the biggest pieces of garbage in all of sports. Hell, they're lucky some EPL psychos haven't already killed them. Gruden led the NFL in offense as a coordinator with Rodney Peete at quarterback. He resurrected the Raiders from the dead and is the only person ever to win anything of significance in Tampa. Also, I'm going to have to see some evidence of any of his teams in Oakland checking out on him.
  7. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    I'm not sure as to all of the reasons, but here are some:

    1. He is the Holy Grail of coaches out there, if only by large-scale perception. Getting him would immediately thrust Tennessee forward in the minds of recruits, fans, players, assistants, foes, etc.

    2. He's a good-looking guy who loves the game and is as passionate about it as he is knowledgable - that, mixed with his name and Super Bowl ring, may not work in a room full of millionaires, but damn, would it sell a recruit.

    3. He can put your ass in the league. Don't forget, before becoming a head coach, he was a QB coach - and tutored Favre, turning him from an Atlanta Falcon shit-kicker to a first ballot hall of famer.

    4. He knows some offense. For sure. That puts good assistants in line with resumes, recruits on the field, points on the board, and asses in seats. And that's from Day 1.

    5. In my opinion, comparing an NFL coach to a college coach is akin to comparing a high school coach to a college coach - insofar as x's and o's and player evaluation, or as I like to call it, where 97.678% of all college football games are won or lost.

    6. He does have unmistakable Tennessee ties.

    7. He seems like a college coach to me, really. The rah-rah pageantry type, extolling tradition and what not - but even better, he's had the entirety of the NFL experience, including it's pinnacle, so there's a feeling that he wouldn't be as itching to make the jump if he was successful at college level.

    8. His hiring would immediately erase the last 7-8 years of hell, and somehow give it meaning (i.e. If it meant landing him, it turned out ok, afterall).

    My quick take.
    Tar Volon likes this.
  8. WM

    WM Active Member

    Was speaking more on behalf of the performance of those Tampa teams the last few years in his tenure. Once again I'm not saying he is a bad coach. Tampa does have shit for ownership and it's evident in the product today. That being said, Tampa's one multi year span of success was started before Gruden got there and seemed to flounder the longer he was there. I'm just not completely sold that he would instantly become the messiah home run hire for a fractured college program. Perception can be reality sometimes though and what was given to the drive time sports talk fan was Gruden was imploding on his own. Behind closed doors it could have been ownership making it impossible for a coach to succeed. Pros is such a different beast, never really know where the smoking gun may lay.
  9. Volguy1971

    Volguy1971 Sith Lord

    I wouldn't mind seeing him at the helm.....Although if money is not the issue, Mike Tomlin is the one I want.
  10. tennesseevolman

    tennesseevolman New Member

    IMO, the reason for hiring a Gruden or a Cowher type coach is simply recruting. It would bring instant results that would compete with Saban, Miles and Muschamp. Couple that with the discipline these two guys would bring to the table, and the sky would be the limit. I believe that as a college coach, you can build a team fast if you have the name. Simply because Gruden would pull most of the 5 stars from the other SEC schools immediately, rather than have to wait his turn in the NFL draft. Kids would flock to play for a big name like Gruden or Cowher. Grabbing 10 of the best players in the country on signing day is a ton easier than waiting for round 2, 3, 4 etc....... in the NFL draft.
  11. cotton

    cotton Stand-up Philosopher

    That's exactly why I don't understand the love. They are NFL guys who have never shown any interest in taking over a college program, but everyone would like to hire them because they think they would be strong at the one thing they never had to do in the NFL.
  12. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    That's the thing, though - they wouldn't have to be "good" at it, per se. Their name / reputation alone would not only put them in with any kid in the country, and would make them exceedingly tough to beat out.

    Every single player that is recruited by a big-time D1 school wants one thing, above all else, and maybe at all: to go to the NFL, where fortune and fame await.

    At that point in their 18-year old lives, they have likely had to be the biggest, baddest SOB in their league just to draw notice, and they all think that they can make it. What a Gruden / Cowher / NFL coach hire does is bring them one gigantic step closer to realizing that dream. And this isn't some pie-in-the-sky reasoning, but many of their realities, believing that those coaches know what it takes to make it in the league, and how best to prepare them for it. Now, the actual realities of big-time college football often serve as a rude awakening to more than not, but at that stage in their lives, that's where they think they'll land - and they want someone to help get them there. The stronger the ties are to the NFL, the greater the draw.

    Consider Pete Carroll, who was at absolute best, a marginal / average NFL head coach, compiling a 33-31 record in one season with the Jets ('94) and three years with the Patriots (97-99) and was fired from both positions. What he was able to accomplish at USC is well-documented, but it all began with two critical areas: he was able to land a great staff and even better recruits. And it was his NFL experience which served as the greatest draw for each group.

    If a mediocre NFL coach like Carroll can accomplish what he was able to do at USC, imagine what someone like Gruden, Cowher, Dungy, Tomlin, Smith, etc. might accomplish, and more. That's the reason for the unbridled love / optimism, right or wrong, real or imagined - and its a compelling argument to make, with ample "real-world" examples of its successful results.

    At least, IMO.
  13. 615 Vol

    615 Vol Chieftain

    Well, when you have kids choosing Oregon because of the jerseys they wear than a lot of kids probably come to Gruden because of his name. Although he didn't do it in the NFL, I think many assume it would come easy to him because of reputation. I think it's a moot point though as I don't see him ever coming here.
  14. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    I think that the chances of Gruden landing here are in direct proportion to how much money we are willing to pay him. And I don't even know what the second most important consideration might be to him, after that.

    Here's my quick ratio of offer per season : percent chances he accepts the job, it would look like this:

    <$2M/yr : Don't bother calling him, and resign your position
    $2.5-4.0M/yr : 5-10%
    $4.0-5.0M/yr : 45-55%
    $6.0M+/yr : 75%

    Just my take.
  15. cotton

    cotton Stand-up Philosopher

    I'm not saying they couldn't attract players. The college game is different. You have to go beg 17 year olds to come play for you. You have to map out a plan of who, and where, to recruit. You have to travel to Pahokee to deal with a loanshark to get the attention of a kid who can't pass Social Studies without breaking rules. You have to watch all of your coaches for compliance, and you have to monitor grades and keep kids eligible and then go make speeches to the Trezevant Touchdown Club and then start all over and do it again until you have successfully signed 25 guys every year.

    I don't know why these guys would want to do those things, and I really don't know if they would be more successful at doing them than Saban and Meyer and Miles, guys who are where they are precisely because they are good at those things. The Superbowl Rings will open doors, I just think there is much more to it than that.
  16. MaconVol

    MaconVol Chieftain

    I think it would be an excellent hire due to his knowledge of the game and his NFL ties. He could almost assuredly recruit bad asses on the sole fact that he could coach them up to NFL status. Would the players like his attitude, eh maybe or maybe not. But if he wins games and I think that he would, it wouldnt make that big of a difference.
  17. kptvol

    kptvol Super Moderator

    Gruden would fix Da'Rick right up.
  18. IP

    IP Super Moderator

    It is very different to be getting immature attitudes and behavior out of 17-21 year olds, than it is to get them out of 25-35 year olds. He might not have as much of a problem getting along with younger folk, since they are just acting their age.


    I'm like most of you its a long shot to get Gruden....But the NFL/ Superbowl ring coach or decent NFL team ---------One of those type coaches would go along way in the recruiting. But as you guys have stated its a special kind of fellow that wants to do all of those extra needed things to make sure his team is ready to take the field with all the players he needs to effectivaly run his system.
  20. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    Too [uck fay]ing quick to talk about it.

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