POLITICS The Biden Presidency

Discussion in 'Politicants' started by emainvol, Jan 20, 2021.

  1. IP

    IP "You don't know what it is like in our universe."

    If only someone could have seen that this is where the "anti-CRT" phoniness to whip up the mob was heading:


  2. IP

    IP "You don't know what it is like in our universe."

    CRT isn't being taught in K-12 because it isn't really possible to get into the nuance of law/social structure to the depth required to where CRT would be relevant. What bad actors are doing is conflating anything about racism or discrimination with "CRT," and telling people a bunch of stuff about CRT that isn't factual.
  3. NorrisAlan

    NorrisAlan Put Custom Title Here

    We don't want to be teaching 5th graders calculus, so we are going to cancel all mathematics classes.
  4. Indy

    Indy Chieftain

    I think those writings should be taught in schools.

    But to be fair, the article also included this:

    So I'm not as amazed or outraged as I was when I first read your post. My guess is that most teachers and parents and administrators will want these sorts of writings taught.

    This issue honestly feels like a lot of bull shit from every direction. Teach what happened. Don't leave out specific, historical events that might paint our country's past in a negative light.

    But while doing that, don't make white kids feel guilty for actions they did not commit 50, 100, 400 years ago, and don't try to convince black students that they can't succeed in the US because the system is rigged against them.
  5. Indy

    Indy Chieftain

    According to that post, no one is canceling anything. They're not saying "you can't teach MLK's I have a dream speech." They're just not requiring it by state statute.

    At least that's what is said in the article.
  6. Indy

    Indy Chieftain

    Most of your posts on CRT make it seem as though you believe CRT is this concrete, unchanging thing that doesn't lead to or inform any further thought beyond what it is. I don't think anyone is arguing that the literal, base version of CRT, the stuff focused on law/social structure, is being taught in K-12.

    But stuff like the 1619 Project, anti-racism, etc. are offshoots of CRT, and a lot of people don't want that stuff taught in schools. It's significantly easier to just loop all of that stuff into the overarching "CRT" bucket, and while it may not be 100% accurate, you know what people mean when they say it. Your insistent response to this issue, that people don't even know what CRT is, just kind of dances around what's really being discussed.
  7. IP

    IP "You don't know what it is like in our universe."

    yes, it is easier to be inaccurate. No, it is not easier to understand people when they are being inaccurate. in fact, that is dancing around what is really being discussed.
  8. IP

    IP "You don't know what it is like in our universe."

    if someone says, "I don't want the 1619 project taught in school," it becomes something very specific that can be talked about. If 1619 project is what is at issue, why not say that? And why not get into which parts they find objectionable and why?
  9. Indy

    Indy Chieftain

    Because it's not the only thing that's at issue. It's among a number of things that are at issue. In the actual discussions about curriculum, I'm sure all of those things, as well as their details, get brought to attention.

    But in a headline, or an elevator pitch, you don't have time to list all that shit out. Listing each one is cumbersome, and listing the specific details of each, even more so.

    And the thing that all of those things have in common is that they all stem from CRT. So it's easier to just bundle it up and call it CRT. You can claim that doing so is inaccurate, but if you know what they're talking about, does it really matter?
  10. Indy

    Indy Chieftain

    People have and are. 1619 Project, anti-racism, etc. Those are the specific pieces of CRT with which people take issue. I get that those things aren't "technically" CRT, but, again, they are offshoots of it, and it's faster to group it together.

    If I'm telling someone that I'm going to the store, and they ask me what I'm getting, I don't pull out my list and read them every single item. I tell them "groceries," and they understand what's happening.
  11. chef65

    chef65 Contributor

    Telling someone to shut up doesn’t change his opinion. Threats of bans only reinforce the crusader-for-truth complex. The only way to dispel falsehood is to talk. Discussion may not change the mind of your interlocutor but the record of honest dialogue exchanged may convince others.

    We have no idea what our representatives honestly think. They respond to every inquiry with an eye toward determining motive and a reply measured on optics. Everything revolves around money.
    VolDad likes this.
  12. NorrisAlan

    NorrisAlan Put Custom Title Here

    Shut up
    Ssmiff likes this.
  13. chef65

    chef65 Contributor

  14. VolDad

    VolDad Super Moderator

    Ban him!
  15. Unimane

    Unimane Kill "The Caucasian"

    I don't know where people get this nonsense and I hear this said quite a bit. I suppose this is the extrapolation used to undermine the idea of systemic racism by associating it with such nefarious theories white kids are being told they are bad and responsible for slavery/Jim Crow/etc. and black kids taught they are but poor victims. Perhaps you could find some (very) random example of this, though I doubt anything more than some scattered kooky figures all professions have. This is really a device to avoid talking or contemplating about the more substantive issues you put in the umbrella of CRT rather than a reflection in reality. Saying one group benefits from past inequalities isn't saying this modern group of white people is responsible for those past actions and it isn't being taught so. Saying the structures on our society create inequalities against one group isn't saying black kids can't succeed and it isn't being taught so.

    Otherwise, I'm not sure the Potter Stewart Theory of "I know it when I see it" is, frankly, good enough when it comes to people's jobs. We've already seen educators lose their jobs over these laws and the vagaries of "everybody knows" needs a little more unraveling if it's going to matter so much. Until then, I'll just have to weather the storm from the latest attempt of the "cancel culture" and "ideological freedom" party making actual laws which dictate what can and can not be said in my classroom, whether not saying gay or deviating from some gung ho Americana version of history and society they want to push.
  16. chef65

    chef65 Contributor

    “The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error.”
    - John Stuart Mill (1806-1873)
  17. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    Counter argument:

    This vaccine has a microchip in it Bill Gates can track your movements!
    -Karen (1978 -)
  18. JohnnyQuickkick

    JohnnyQuickkick Calcio correspondent

    Y’ain’t gonner tell me what ta do!
    -Jerry, (1959-)

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