The Plague & Privilege of Childhood Poverty

That's because there is a difference in the parents. If your parents are making $20k a year you are being raised by losers. Their parents clearly didn't give a shit about education and hard work either. Otherwise they wouldn't be making $20k a year in the first place. Show me an immigrant family whose parents have no college education making $40k a year that works it's ass off and cares about education and I'll show you kids that are kicking the rich kids ass in life.

 

The stats show that kids of wealth blow through it and end up poorer. The empire is generally gone within two generations.

 

The majority of new wealthy is first or second generation immigrants before they're Americanized

 

If I had to argue of a current class that had as a whole it best, I'd say as a whole it would be middle-to-upper middle class kids whose parents were lower middle or lower class, worked their ass off, and instilled a strong work ethic in their kids.

 

But my wife and I make probably 140k a year. With that money, we take a couple of vacations a year, usually to some place we have never been, explore and talk about things as we see them. This year, we learned about a native tribe I had never heard of, the Calusa of south Florida, saw manatees, stingrays and ate food we had never had (conch is a lot like scallops in taste, lobster like texture). If we made 30k a year, there is no way we could do this.

Does it all come down to parenting? Of course. A person making 10 million a year can be a great parent, not give their children everything they could want but more than just the basics and they will be far better off for it. But like happiness, money can only bring so much to the table. After that, it is all up to the parents and the children.

 

Or made some seriously bad mistakes early in their life (like many do) and pay for it forever. Such as having that child at 17 years old. I think you paint a very broad stroke with a big brush when you use language like that, personally.

 

Mistakes make it harder, it doesn't make it impossible.

 

Of course, and I don't want you guys to think that I am all "Oh it isn't their fault". We are all responsible for our own situations (save childhood, of course), but I just don't go for broad generalities like that most of the time. I know some people that are not well off, but it just didn't work out for them. I also have a relative that made some early mistakes and compounded them with one mistake after another. And let's face it, some people are just born not smart (intellectually, not common sense wise).

And, as I think you said, Card, the best upbringing is probably upper middle class. I actually feel sorry for kids that grow up uber rich, as they usually do not have a well grounded upbringing.

 

I'd say someone who made some seriously bad mistakes is a loser. I don't care how many bad mistakes you've made. If you work your ass off you will make over $20k

 

Respectfully what do these vacations do for your children long term? Nice memories sure, but result in them having a better life 20 years from now? I don't see it.

Take that same person making $20k a year. Give them $100k a year and don't tell me that their kids long term academic and career success explodes. The things that got their parents to $20k a year don't go away.

 

Hoping I am not putting words in your mouth, but not everything has to be about money, house and a new car. We are our memories, and if it makes them a better, more rounded and grounded person, treating their children better and people around them better, then yes, it will help them twenty years from now.

Careers and nothing but careers lead to horrible midlife crises.

 

Truth.

 

I'm not convinced there aren't ample ways to get the same result spending a lot less money. I don't give a crap how people spend their money btw. I'm not suggesting it's useless, just not much of a benefit not enjoyed by everyone else.

 

How do you get the benefits of experiences without experiencing them?

 

The question is if the location of the experiences makes a difference?

 

In terms of financial success twenty years down the road? Doubtful. But I wouldn't say that doesn't make it worth it.

 

I would say it does. Provincial people are usually the dumbest.

 

Money makes life easier, just like any tool. To suggest, much less to argue, any differently, is folly. But easier does not mean "better", and in fact, it can mean "worse".

Like BPV, and I think several others here, I've been on both sides of that fence, too. Without boring you guys with too many details, I lived in Western Heights projects with my pill-addicted mother and sister for most of my years as a kid (age 5-10), living off of food stamps and welfare. My family didn't value education (I was the first in my family to graduate both high school and college). They damned sure didn't value hard work (I've yet to see people who work harder at finding ways not to work, than my family). We certainly never went on vacation, to anywhere, for any length of time. The first time I ever saw the ocean was when I reported to my first ship in the Navy. Once I turned five or so, we didn't celebrate Christmas or birthdays, as there was no money for trees, presents or cake. My story is tragically not unique, nor is it as soul-crushing awful as many others have had it, but it was damned hard, and poor, for sure.

While I am admittedly the luckiest SOB that has ever lived, and have no idea as to why I instinctively just sort of knew that the way my family did things and lived was neither normal nor best, I busted my ass to get out out of that life, and to make a new one. I put myself in positions to take advantage of breaks as they came, and then busted even more ass to maximize the opportunities they presented to me. I appreciate the things I've got now, not because I had the money to buy them, but because I had to work to earn them, and figured out a way to do so.

I'm far from rich now, but have done well. And now that I have kids, its a daily struggle to perfectly balance my desire to give them everything that I didn't have, and that's a lot of shit, but also realizing that it's ok for them to want and to struggle, to make goals and work toward them, and even to fail when their effort is wanting, or circumstance works against them. I don't want them to struggle like I did, but I want them to learn not only the value of hard work, but its necessity. And so my struggles made me a better person, and parent. Or, I at least know what a good parent should look like - and when I fail to hit that mark, which is often.

Money would have made my life easier, but I disagree that it would have made it better.

 

Agreed. I believe that traveling is almost as important as books, when it comes to a child's education.

 

I think the best way to instill in my children a sense of wonder is taking them to Kentucky and down into the awesome sight of Mammoth Cave. We have a pop-up camper, travel with it and do not spend 10k on a vacation. Our trip to Florida this week cost more than normal because we had to eat out every night after our gas hose burst, but you can go and see things all over the south east for little money.

And Tenny, tank you for sharing your story. My story is a boring house of middle income, no divorce, no abuse and loving parents. And I am grateful for it every day of my life, especially when I hear stories like yours. Thank you, Tenny, and I am happy you got out. Fight hard that instinct you naturally now have to spoil your children!