Did he do enough to be Baker acted? He did already bring a knife to school. The school banned him from bringing a backpack. He did enough to get expelled, and didn't he made specific threats that he was going to do so.ething like this?
Going in reverse. No. There should be no special classes of citizens. If someone is allowed to be armed, and someone can be in place X, they should be allowed to be armed in place X. Otherwise nobody should be allowed to be armed there. So you want a gun free campus, that means no armed police. You want a gun free court room, that means no armed anyone. But nobody actually wants that; what they want is worse. The very thing you want is the basis for the statement. Over the last year, if firearms had been massively dangerous, distracting, or whatever unrealized fear you list today, you’d have heard about it. Instead, you have no idea who is armed, how many, for how long, or what test scores have become, or why. In other words, no difference. Lack of private school shootings has no bearing on anything. You cannot legally carry a firearm in class on your next school day (I assume you are off Monday...), if you are a public school teacher. I’m not sure why you state the obvious?
A Bunsen burner is a weapon. Scissors are a weapon. Scalpels for discretion are very sharp weapons. VoTech shops have knives, and all kinds of other tools that are weapons. Law enforcement teach classes to each other, about weapons; this is a classroom setting. Your sacred cow allows for weapons already, and in many cases arms those leaning. What you mean is you don’t think a firearm is appropriate in a public school, carried by a teacher. Which is a pretty specific filter, especially considering there are other times you allow that exact same person to carry, even if surrounded by the exact same people. The classroom isn’t sacred. It’s just a room.
You still haven't noted whether or not they are actually bringing guns into those classrooms and, if so, what the effect is or is not. The mere fact that the law exists is not proof of anything. We are speaking different languages. I just can't get behind your concept of a, generally, unfettered gun culture, where you can carry weapons in every scenario as long as you possess the required documents. Furthermore, when that situation is deemed necessary, then I have to wonder what kind of society we've created and if I want my children to be in it. And, I disagree, the classroom, to an extent, is sacred.
I don’t think it’s necessary at all. But rather a choice. It’s like a pocket knife. It’s not a necessary but it really sucks when you need one and don’t have it.
Do you think they aren’t there? We live in that culture now, man. It’s just limited to people with the document called “badge.” Why do you draw such a sharp distinction between “firearms in classroom for protection” and “firearms in school building for protection?” Because you currently have the desire for the latter, but if it crosses the door’s threshold, oh no, terrible things will happen! We’re already there. Cognitive dissonence just keeps allowing you to filter the stance down and down so as to not disrupt your view of the world. The classroom is not sacred. At all.
I'm not inquiring as to what you or I think about the current environment. I'm asking what is known, even anecdotally, about the presence of guns in these classrooms. And, terrible things don't need to occur for it to not be ideal, just more trouble than it's worth. And, yes, the classroom is sacred and different than an SRO having their own office in the school or patrolling the hallways. I've have had an SRO step into my room and the mood changes immediately. Now, of course, the presence of a uniformed officer is a significant part of this, but the presence of fire power, I have zero doubt, plays into this change, as well. Perhaps I simply don't have the ability to convey to you how this would, in fact, affect the classroom, but my inadequacy doesn't change the fact that it would. Of course, I'm also fairly convinced that your world view wouldn't allow you to understand this concept, either.
I'm trying to imagine my 13 year old self in a classroom, hiding behind a desk, listening to gunshots going off. I think I want a solid steal door that is locked. If I'm thinking about some of my teachers with a shotgun waiting for a gunman to come busting through the door, it doesn't make me feel good. My teachers were not people I look to to protect me. No offense to the teachers here, but I don't want them protecting my little girls.
There are firearms in classrooms, and have been. They are on campus, in staff purses and briefcases. They have been for over a year and a half. Those are facts. What you “feel” is not. And of course it is due to the uniform. Test it. Have him come in without a firearm. You’ll get the same result. Then have a guy come in with a firearm in his pocket, that they can not see, in regular teacher attire. Then report back that that concealed weapon has upset the class.
Steel doors aren’t bad. I’m of the opposite mind, though. Whomever can offer the slightest bit of extra protection for my kid, even if they fail, I’ll take it.
I have been a bad boy and have not faithfully read every post in this thread, so any statements I make below are not aimed at anyone nor any attempt at a strawman. They are simply my outlook on things. I may be crazy, but I don't want my kid walking into a building that looks like a damn armed fortress/prison instead of a school. The odds that my kid gets shot at school are lower than the odds he dies from getting hit by a car on the way to school. My dad showed me a pump shotgun that had dual tube magazines and held 40+1 2" shells. My first thought was, who needs this? Sandy Hook changed me forever when it comes to high capacity semi-automatic guns. I wish we could go back in time and not have these in the hands of civilians. But, I just don't think we can ever put that genie back in the bottle. What can we do? I have no idea. But my first aim if I was in charge would be looking at targeting and helping those with mental illnesses that cause this sort of behavior. I am not a health professional and have no idea if this can be done, but I don't see why it could not be done. I also think this country needs to sit down and stare in the mirror when it comes to our gun fetish. It is a deep part of our history, part of the fabric of what made us a Nation. But we have come a long way from muzzle loaders and even smooth bore cannon. Where we go from this introspection, I have no idea. I know I have a lot of this and that and then no answers, but this is a hard subject to tackle. I own an SKS (piece of shit), a pump shotgun and a .22 Marlin semi-automatic with a 15 round tube magazine. None have been fired in over 10 years. I don't even know why I keep them. My steam of consciousness for the day.
You have one of the first most popular modular “assault” weapons, capable of taking a high cap magazine, in the SKS. And an early high capacity semi automatic .22. At some point in time, there must have been a reason you found logical to buy or accept them as a gift.
That is my gut reaction as well however I remember a time when I could park my car, walk through an airport terminal unencumbered and walk on a plane. As threats increased we made changes. Perhaps it is time to change the way we protect children in schools.
Past time. And this whole “I don’t want my kids...” only delays it. I want kids safe. And the days of ducking head under a desk to protect against nukes, tornadoes and everything else is over. Steel doors with magnetic locks are in banks, hospitals, grocery stores, Bass Pro, and countless places everywhere else. As are armed security guards, police officers and store owners. When is the last time it felt like walking into a prison when visiting any of those places?
1. I agree. I don't think making a school a fortress makes it much safer. 2. You need to go on a conservation snow goose hunt (I'm joking). There's no sense in it, to be honest. 3. High capacity semi automatic rifles are really no different than the Marlin .22 semi-auto you own. 15 shots in a closed off area with a .22 does the same damage. Those guns have been available for years. 4. Mental health is one issue here. Another is prescription medication, another is the accessibility of guns. 5. Little man syndrome is real. I own a lot of guns, I shoot a lot of animals. I do not feel the need to display my affection for guns 24/7. They are tools. People seem to have lost that idea along the way. I have weapons for home and self defense, I hope I never have to use them. 6. I will take that .22 Marlin if you want to sell it.
I have to rebuff the "prescription medication" rhetoric when it comes to antidepressants and the like. You don't blame applying a tourniquet for killing the limb. The problem isn't anti-psychotics or anti-depressants, the problem is thinking a pill alone that is going to solve every problem. Sometimes, it isn't depression after all. I do not believe the pill makes a shooter anymore than the flu vaccine makes flu.
