Good bye then. Tennessee allows higher education faculty and staff to be armed. From UTK (https://utpolice.utk.edu/services/campus-concealed-carry/) The caveats are small: can't be enrolled in a class as a student, cannot carry to a disciplinary meeting, or review, and cannot take it to a medical facility or stadium. Your universe is NOT the school room, it's the school room your feet are in. There are other school rooms you have no knowledge of, clearly.
You shouldn't presume to know a thing about what I do or don't know. There's also a significant difference between grade school classrooms, with children, and higher education classrooms, with adults. I'm not necessarily in favor of professors packing, either, but I think you knew the gist of the argument. So, spare me the gotcha bullshit. However, since you brought it up, why should students be banned from carrying in schools if they are adults and have passed the necessary certifications?
They shouldn't be, they should be allowed to carry. They can, in some places. Whether that becomes the norm or not remains to be seen. Elaborate why : Is not true of higher education? But further, where in public DO you support the carry of firearms? I don't have to presume; you haven't been in every classroom in America, much less this state. Therefore there are gaps in your knowledge. It isn't a presumption. The opposite is simply too improbable.
Well, I don't necessarily agree, but it is a consistent position you maintain relative to my question. Huh? This seems an arbitrary line of qualification. Who has been in every classroom in America? Is no one able to give an assessment on the matter? I haven't been in every public space in America, so why would you ask me to make a determination on that, too? Can we even have a conversation if such a knowledge level is required? However, no, higher education classrooms and grade school classrooms are entirely different beasts. The potential for chaos, impulsive behavior, irrational decision making and a general endless number of compromising situations that would create a dangerous, even self-destructive, incident isn't worth the much smaller chance of having someone shoot an individual shooting up the school building. I could come up with any number of dangerous scenarios which would make the carrying of a teacher in a classroom a poor idea, not to mention it should be distasteful for, say, a fourth grade math teacher to have a gun in a room all day, every day while holding a class of 25 or so 9 year olds. Why do you think it's insufficient to have an able security system buttressed by one or two SROs in our schools? I am not opposed to having guns in public spaces, even if I'm not a fan of them, nor in schools, in certain capacities and there is a good discussion to be had on the appropriate line there. However, are we that far gone as a society in terms of guns and violence that we need to turn our schools into a [dadgum] armory?
I wouldn't teach to armed people. I don't teach anymore anyway, though. I don't want a gun while teaching, either. I don't have a problem with other instructors having them, if they are qualified to handle them and wish to.
You stated the classroom was your universe, I’m stating that’s impossible. No, we cannot have a conversation if you are going to take that position, because lots of schools don’t have SROs; but they do have armed teachers. You state that it’s going to create a dangerous situation, that hinders learning. I’m showing you that in this very state, for over a year, K-12 teachers and higher education teachers have been armed, based on the law, and these fears of yours have not been substantiated. These fears of yours do not materialize on any grand scale. Tennessee is also not the first to have these laws. Will there be incidents? Absolutely. Has it been pure chaos the last year and a half? Absolutely not. It is insufficient because the fears are unfounded and unrealized, it’s no more “distasteful” than a qualified teacher be armed than the owner of a Chuck E Cheese, or a bounce house, or someone sitting in a church, or movie theater. It is insufficient because the state has said this person can defend themselves and others in all those other locations, but not in that location. And an armory is where weapons are stored. The word for where weapons are carried is “everywhere.”
Probably. There has been a shooting by and involving someone from every profession on the planet. I fail to see the validity of an n=1 argument.
I didn't make an argument regarding that yet. I was going to point to it, if it occurred, as an anecdotal exhibit. It isn't like there aren't other cases of armed good guys that are not trained in LE or active military not being effective.
What exactly is it that you expect an armed good guy to do, or accomplish? He failed to save his or anyone else’s life... that’ll show him.
Not at Tennessee, and if one was armed on the other campuses he was breaking the law since he was not on duty or in uniform. I would not have a problem with an active duty LE or military person being armed as a student, for the record. I was speaking to the idea of random students having concealed weapons in a classroom environment. I wouldn't teach in that situation. If that's what people decide they want to try, so be it. It just isn't something I think is wise to arm civilian students. There may be a reason why even military academies and bases don't have everyone carrying, but rather only staff who are working in the capacity of security. Or not. You would know.
Armed drug dealers killed terrorist during the Paris attack in a restaurant that kept the death toll lower there. Crazy world really
It wouldn't accomplish the goal and would be just as likely as to make the situation worse than help it. Like when there was a shootout near Times Square and all the fatalities were due to the bullets of the police. And those were trained people. I would think there would be even greater risks with random citizens.
I don’t understand the cartwheels you folks do. In the only other thread you’ve posted in in the last 2 hours, you lament the zeal with which a head of a law enforcement group gives and order to kill. (And the speed with which his order is followed without question.) But in this one, you’d rather that guy (or one of those on his department, or fraternity, where he felt at ease enough to make certain boasts, despite them being from different municipalities) be armed. It is amazing to watch in near real time. Military installations follow Federal law. Everyone was armed when we were no longer on US soil. At all times.
