The Indy Talks To Himself (NBA) Thread.

What does the Warriors actively targeting and then roasting Jokic have to do with LeBron?

No one is denying that Jokic is the reason they’re there in the first place. But I’ve said all season that Giannis and Embiid are on a similar level statistically and are FAR better defensively. People have tried to use the advanced stats all season to make the claim that Jokic’s defense has improved dramatically. All you have to do is use your eyes to watch the game. Teams don’t target and go after good defenders in the playoffs. They attack the guy they know they can beat, which was Jokic last night.

 

In what way was he the "hunted" while playing the Heat in the ECF 8 years ago? He/the Pacers were the hunters in that game. Bron and the Heat were the hunted. You're the hunted when the expectations are on you to win and play well. You're the hunter when no one expects you to win. No one expected those Pacers to do shit against the Heat, just like no one expected the Clippers to be successful last season without Kawhi. But the moment there were expectations for PG and the Clippers to win (2020), we got 25% from the field and 18% from 3 with 10 points and 5 turnovers in game 7 to drop a series in which his team had a 3-1 lead.

The dude [uck fay]ing named himself Playoff P. That's why people started calling him Pandemic P. That, and because he couldn't step up in the big moment in 2020, and then was given a massive contract extension despite his massive failure.

You inserted the word "never" with regards to the Ben Simmons stuff. What was Ben Simmons' biggest red flag coming into the league?:

draftexpress.com/profile/Ben-Simmons-61928/

A jumper is something that can be worked on and developed. I'm not saying he can turn himself into Steph, but when basketball is your [uck fay]ing job, you can develop a good enough jumper to be successful with relatively little work. It's the same exact thing LeBron had to do in Miami. The problem for Simmons is that he's either too lazy to do it or too much of a head case.

I love the guy as a defender. I've said he deserved to be defensive player of the year. And I think he can still be a top tier player. But his refusal to work on the one glaring hole in his game over the course of his 4-5 seasons in the league, as well as his complete meltdown against the Hawks last season, followed by sitting out the entire 2021-2022 campaign due to "mental illness" are what they are. It's not a "hot take" to say he's a head case and hasn't worked to improve his game. Passing up this dunk with 3.5 minutes to go in Game 7 because you're afraid to shoot or go to the free throw line is the definition of head case:



The dude shot 33% from the free throw line in that series (not to mention 34% in the first round against the Wizards). 3/10 in game 1. 0/2 in game 2. 4/8 in game 3. 1/5 in game 4. 4/14 in game 5. 2/4 in game 6. 1/2 in game 7. He was basically the dictionary definition of a head case.

 

I am aware of what "hunter" and "hunted" mean. None of that was a meaningful part of the Paul George discourse in 2020. Do you think that as a top-10 player in basketball he doesn't deserve a max extension because of a bad playoff series, or is that last sentence meaningless?

Oh yay, it's the one play everyone has overanalyzed 12 trillion times. Without diving too much into the narrative stuff because I feel like I'm losing brain cells already, missing free throws does not make one a head case and neither does having the same weakness you've always had. I've said this before, people place too much emphasis on being well-rounded; he's improved in plenty of ways at both ends without trying to be a 30% 3-point shooter that people still won't guard in the playoffs. Plenty of people are and remain bad free throw or three point shooters without idiots pontificating that they don't work hard.

Every time someone has a bad playoff game (or God forbid a bad series), the discourse is dominated by people who have watched them play twice all season piling on, calling them a bum and wringing hands over "can we win with him?!?!????" Probably my least favorite thing about the NBA.

 

He's not as good a defender as they are. He's also one of the best passers of all time regardless of position, and neither of the others are in the same universe in that respect, which I think you know already.

 

I do. He’s also not as good of a scorer. His passing gave him 2 more assists per game than Giannis this season, and 4 more than Embiid. I get that passing is not just about assists, but I’d take the defense from the other 2 over the passing from Jokic.

 

Kyrie lit them up going 1 v 1, but I’m glad something basic like ball watching and flat footed on D last possession led to the pass to Tatum and layup. He wasn’t looking for the cutter and didn’t anticipate a pass he could’ve easily defended

 

If you knew what it meant, why did you bring up another instance in which PG was the hunter, as if it killed the narrative that he couldn’t handle the expectations of being the hunted the one time in his career he had to deal with them?

If you don’t see the difference in playing playoff basketball with expectations on your shoulders vs playing with no expectations, I don’t know what to tell you. The pressure of expectations wore on the dude 100%.

I don’t think PG was a top 10 player in 2020, not that you have to be in order to get a max contract. They mortgaged their future to establish that team. They didn’t really have another option. It’s just funny that they max extended him right after that dismal game 7. No 4th quarter points and a 3 that hits the side of the backboard, and all from a guy that nicknamed himself Playoff P? Just tough.

Not taking an open dunk because you’re afraid of being fouled and sent to the free throw line is what makes you a headcase. Missing is one thing. Being so afraid of missing that you avoid the shots altogether? Head case.

Not every player needs to be well rounded, but you expect it to some degree out of a player selected first overall who recently signed a max contract - especially when the skill he lacks is so easily attainable/improvable.

Who are you talking about in your last paragraph? Ben Simmons? Nearly everyone in Philly wanted him gone. I know multiple season ticket holders who wanted him gone. The 76ers were extremely patient with their team/duo for multiple years before ultimately deciding it wasn’t going to work. And even that was forced on them, to a degree, by Simmons demanding a trade and refusing to play.

 

Exciting finish.

 

What an awful charge call on Levine

 

The Suns are good at basketball.

 

I hope either Grant Williams or Chris Paul gets a ring this year

 

[uck fay] Chris Paul.

 

@Unimane

 

Celtics/Nets should be fun tomorrow night. A lot of people seem to think the Nets are in a good spot because KD won't play that poorly again. But if that's the game we are playing, Kyrie probably won't play that well again, so I think it balances out.

Not saying Celtics are going to win it - just don't think Nets should feel good about dropping that game.

 

I'm all for Jordan Poole getting a ton of recognition, and I do think it's cool/funny that a guy, whose last name is the same word as a body of water, is now part of the "splash bros."

But Draymond deserves a ton of credit for making this team go, and he's a big reason that Jokic has struggled as much as he has. He's not getting nearly enough recognition.

 

I love Sidney and those 80s Bucks, but I'm not sure he's top 50.

 

Well, Nick's list is "Top 50 players of the last 50 years," so it's not an "of all time" list.

He gives his criteria pretty early on in this video:

 

Jokic now -45 through 2 playoff games. Shooting 47% from the field, 0% from 3. He's been ejected from 2 of his last 3 post season appearances, and the Nuggets have been blown out in both games despite the Warriors bringing Steph off the bench.

The MVP award is meaningless if this guy wins a 2nd consecutive.

 

LeBron being minus a million all season = "he's doing everything he can!! Look at his team!!"

Jokic averaging 26-11-5-2-2 and losing to a team with 5 players better than any teammate he has = "the very meaning of MVP is being called into question"

But no, these aren't monumentally stupid hot takes based on individual games, we promise

 

You're cherry picking, brother. Did LeBron shoot 47% from the field and 0% from 3 while being minus a million all season? If you're scoring points and shooting super efficiently, and your team is still getting blown out, it's probably safe to say you're not the issue. If you're shooting inefficiently as [uck fay] and getting targeted on defense while also getting blown out, you are probably part of the problem.

So much to unpack here:

• I don't care what Jokic is averaging. Watch the games. He has been bad. He looks slow, out of shape, and regularly gassed. He's been incredibly inefficient on offense and a liability/target on defense.
• "Losing?" It's not about them "losing." No one expected the Nuggets to beat the Warriors. If he was showing out in close losses, no one would be saying anything. But they've been blown out twice and look like they don't belong on the same court.
• The Warriors do not have 5 players better than Aaron Gordon. Stop it. And let's not pretend that the Warriors are coming into this series with the same lineup continuity that Denver has had. Klay missed over half the season. Steph missed quite a few games and is currently coming off the bench. Draymond missed half the season. The Nuggets have 5 guys who have started 63 games or more this season. Not saying it's enough to make up the talent gap, but it matters.

The back to back MVP club is an elite group comprised almost entirely of the best players to ever play the game. I'm not saying Jokic has to beat the Warriors in round 1 for him to deserve it... but it would be nice if he at least put up massive numbers in close losses, or if it wasn't just a foregone conclusion that they were going to lose in the first round. Outside of Russ (who you and I both agree shouldn't have won it), who was the last player to win even a single MVP, and it was a foregone conclusion that he wouldn't make it out of the first round of the playoffs? The dude does not deserve to be MVP.