Babysitters (teachers) in this state will continue to be

Who, teachers? I can tell you there are a whole host of potential solutions proposed by teachers that go beyond just getting more money. It will vary, though. For instance, my number one object for revision is to make classrooms smaller. Other teachers will talk about less testing, more project based learning, greater involvement with community and business, etc., etc. Certainly, there are money issues and requests that are near or at the top of the list, but certainly not the only aspect.

 

it's interesting. i've seen some great schools that have 30 students per class and some mediocre ones that have 15. the biggest problem is getting the parents to give a shit and i'm not sure how solvable that is.

 

Because we're not a business and the way it works in the private sector is irrelevant, which is why the people who continually try to make into something like this keep failing. Our objective is to educate, not make a profit, so this review focuses on that ability. It also is designed to protect teachers from wanton abuses and forced termination by principals and administrations who are looking to purge their rosters and bring in their personal choices, or sycophants. More importantly, it protects teachers from accusations by parents and students from being summarily fired without some kind of hearing, a provision not provided to non-tenured teachers, who I have seen immediately terminated by accusations later found to be false. There are a number of other reasons I could identify, but, essentially, it's an entirely different mentality and world than the private sector and should be treated as such.

 

So? Exceptions are available, but are you trying to tell me that, on average, it's a better environment for education when there are classes of 33+ (which is about 90% of my classes during my career) as opposed to ones that are, say, 20? Otherwise, I agree on the parents part and that is the elephant in the room, but it's too hard to find a solution, so they go after the low lying fruit, like test scores.

 

There are plenty of private schools that do not require a hearing to fire someone so there is ample evidence it can work in non business situations. generally the parents council is talked to when a teacher is going to be let go, so that avoids the sycophant situation which i agree can be a problem. and yes sometimes you will fire people unjustly. that's life. the benefits of getting rid of tenure FAR outweigh the occasional teacher being fired for the wrong reasons. here in calforinia, when layoffs happen, they happen 100% by seniority. meaning that not only do we get rid of the cheapest teachers in the bunch, but many times get rid of the ones with the best energy and therefore the best teachers. running anything based on how long you've had the job is a recipe for disaster in any organization.

 

i think on average smaller classes are better, but i'm not sure it's the panacea everyone thinks it is. i'd rather have a good teacher with 30 students than a ok teacher with 20. the other problem is this theory that all students are the same and we can't leave anyone behind.

 

Again, the only reason it's a problem is because people are too lazy to do it right. Firing by seniority is but one example of lazy administrators not wanting to engage in the process because it takes some time and effort on their part. I fail to see why I should be penalized because they don't want to do their job. And, the private schools are an entirely different world with the student body rules and nearly everything else. They also treat their teachers like dogs for less pay and force teachers to pander to parents who provide money to the school by giving little Johnny a good grade because his family's name is on the school gymnasium (among a number of possible examples along these lines). I don't give two shits about how they operate.

 

My philosophy is if you make yourself a valuable asset you'll always have a job. You might get fired unjustly or unfortunately but if you're good at what you do someone will always want you. Everything you mentioned can get someone fired in the private sector. I work on a government contract, if someone plays the political game wrong I could be out of a job tomorrow. That sucks but that's life. I go to work every day and do my utmost make myself noticed and make people realize the value I bring to the team; that's on me. I could attempt to drift through my 40 years in the work place but that route is fraught with peril. You mention that education is a different mentality than the private sector, we have a system that protects the worst and most senior of the group instead of rewarding the best. That not a good thing imo.

 

I've never heard of that from private schools. The only knock that I've ever heard is that you make less, but that you have more control over your classroom.

 

It's not the be all, end all, but it's a big deal, in my opinion, and where I would start making changes, if I could. I agree on the idea of a good vs. ok teacher, but it would be even better and far more effective to have a good teacher with 20 students. At some point, it just seems as if we're warehousing kids and the focus of my class with 35 kids becomes less focused on individual attention and progress and more on gaining some kind of consensus.

 

well firing the administrators would be a nice start. there are way too many in the public schools here. and my wife was never pressured to change a kid's grade and private schools have far higher college rates, graduation rates, and sat scores. i see zero evidence they do things more poorly than public schools. exactly the opposite. holding teachers accountable isn't the same thing as treating them like dogs.

 

Not from the teachers I've talked with. Try giving a kid a failing grade when his parents are donating $50,000 and you better be ready for the third degree and a grade change no matter your evidence. Perhaps this isn't everywhere, but I know a few teachers with whom I discuss things and I get this story all the time.

 

Private schools get to pick their kids, have much greater funds and aren't subject to many problems that public schools must deal with as a matter of existence. There's no way to compare SAT scores and the like when you get to have a hand picked class of 15 kids who come from upper crust families as opposed to having to deal with anybody and everybody who walks through the door.

 

You get those issues with public education too. I know kids that get certain breaks just because their parents come to the school and raise hell all the time, and no one wants to put up with it.

 

there are plenty of private schools with ample middle to lower class students who succeed. i do agree that a major difference is if the student and parents don't care you can give them the heave ho, but that goes back to accountability for the parents, students, AND teachers being the road toward success.

 

I honestly believe if we'd overhaul our welfare state, that we could fix a lot of our educational problems. We've created the incentive that a huge portion of our population disvalue education.

 

Hell look at what Oakland has done with their educational system over there. It's truly amazing and they didn't do it with the cream of the crop either.

 

In Birmingham yesterday, the Hoover school district announced that they would no longer have bus service for students beginning the 14-15 school year. The exception will be made for Special ed students that require special transportation. The folks in Hoover aren't too happy with their superintendent.

 

if family and raw materials are the main determinants of outcome, why do we care about crap like tenure, unions and more expense, all of which keep leading to worse outcomes?

The degradation hasn't changed the schools for families that give a shat. I'm not sure we should bother caring about the rest.

 

I'm not afforded that luxury in my job, though. There are also a number of students I had that were complete shits, but, when I ran into them at 22, told me something I said clicked with them later on in their life and are getting their degree in whatever. So, you never know what might click and just plug away. Besides, if we don't care about the rest, those people have a tendency to intrude on our lives and society in far worse ways instead of simply fading away.

Ultimately, I'm not here to whine about my job. I'm actually quite satisfied with my pay, as just under $50,000 is fair enough for me in this profession. Had I wanted to make 6 figures, I would've chosen to pursue a law degree when I had options. My contention is that I don't want to be held accountable to an arbitrary method of evaluation or one that sets me up for failure through outside forces.