The Indy Talks To Himself (NBA) Thread.

That's fair, but if you've watched his career and concluded that he has no shot at Jordan even if he keeps winning rings, I'm not really sure what else you were looking to see

 

You just know he's going to be in the Finals. Not the same as winning it, but still. Unlike Jordan, rosters are more transitory. And besides, staying with the Bulls for so long is a whole other kettle of fish than going from Cleveland to Miami then back to Cleveland. And when Jordan left Chicago unexpectedly, they won 55 games and second in the East. Pippen was the all-star MVP. Meanwhile, when James leaves a place they nosedive.

 

Said differently, if LeBron did this for the next three seasons in a row and your answer would still be, "Nope. No chance," you're probably biased.

 

That's just a little bit disingenuous. The Heat title teams had a little more than that.

 

They didn't have as much as the Bulls did. They weren't better than the Spurs team that beat them. Jordan's teams were better than everyone they played

 

I don't know. It seems as if his style was a possession or two away from a second title in a row. He may have something there.

 

The Bulls of the second trio of titles was a completely different team than the first trio. The only mainstays of the two were Pippen and Jordan. The first season after Jordan went alright, but the one in which he came back was going pretty badly for the Bulls and they had a below .500 record at the break.

 

I do not think that is a very strong argument, that *two* seasons after Jordan left things weren't going well, coupled with "completely different team" stuff. I'm trying to make the argument that the supporting case was pretty good. for most of the time. I'm not arguing that Jordan wasn't a great player.

 

Jordan will remain the stick to which others are measured, LeBron can't dethrone him. Nobody can. His legacy and overall impact for the game can't be duplicated.

 

Towards the end they didn't. Unhealthy Wade and Bosh, past that it was a roster of mid level exception guys on the back nine of thier careers.

 

Curry had no chance at that. He's the best shooter ever, not sure it's really debatable either. But the guys at the very top of the list were great two way players, he isn't close to being a great defender.

 

It was better than you describe. Wasn't the greatest finish you'll ever see but it was a close, tense battle until the very end with two or three borderline great moments.

 

Congrats to Lebron and Cleveland. I'm not sure how Skip Bayless can seriously argue that Kyrie is MVP over Lebron. Also, surely there's not a team dumb enough to give Harrison Barnes the max.

 

We will see a lot of guys getting obscene amounts of money, we've already seen it and the cap is growing by over 20 million next season.

 

Is there anyone besides MJ or LeBron legitimately in the GOAT discussion at all? Can we agree that of the retired guys that Jordan stands alone?

Next group is Robertson, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird. Anyone else? But I'd argue it's a 2-man discussion.

 

No doubt. There are at least 10 teams with 25 mil in cap space this offseason. It still doesn't mean Barnes should see max money

 

Maybe, but close games do not always = good basketball. The last mins of that game were pretty bad.

 

I know you're not making that argument about Jordan, but I do think it is a decent argument in favor of Jordan the he was able to win three consecutive titles on two separate occasions with two entirely different squads sans Pippen. Certainly, the supporting cast was good, but even someone as good as Pippen was only capable of keeping it together for one season until it began falling apart.

 

If that is a good argument, then James winning it with Miami and now Cleveland is a great argument.

 

It certainly is a good argument for his greatness and I don't think any list of top 10 all time without LeBron is a fool's errand. I just watched both from the time they were both newbies in the league and I can't see how anyone would argue Jordan isn't clearly the best, or, at least, better than LeBron and I like James quite a bit. When he chips were down, Jordan always delivered like no athlete I've ever seen. James has had a little spottier record in the clutch.