Afghanistan Peace Talks

Discussion in 'The Thunderdome' started by 7thgroupvolfan, Feb 15, 2012.

  1. 7thgroupvolfan

    7thgroupvolfan New Member

    Karzai has already stated that U.S/TB(taliban) peace talks would undermind the government already in place. I agree that we should have some say in the matter, but these peace talks should be between Afghanistan/TB. It's been stated that the TB will not stop the violence until an islamic government is in place. What concessions could we afford to make to end this war and it not look like a total waste of lives and resources?
     
  2. volfanbill

    volfanbill Active Member

    I honestly don't know. What I do know is that just packing up and leaving by 2014 like Barry O. wants is the worst possible idea we could do. If that happens, everything (and you could argue that it isn't much) that we've done over there for the past 11 years goes straight down the drain in a matter of months. If I had the answers I guess my beret would have stars on it instead of battalion insignia, but there's no way we will be able justify our fleeing of Afghanistan when it's written down in the history books if Barry O's plan comes to fruition.
     
  3. fl0at_

    fl0at_ Humorless, asinine, joyless pr*ck

    I'm so far removed that I couldn't even begin to speculate, but if things haven't changed drastically in the last 8 years, then Karzai is the President of Kabul, and it won't make a damn one way or the other.

    So, do "better off" Afghan tribal leaders, that don't necessarily like Karzai or consolidated government, still control most of the country by way of small, private armies funded by drug fields? If so, it won't matter... the government will be disposed soon enough, anyway.
     
  4. 7thgroupvolfan

    7thgroupvolfan New Member

    The ALP, ANA, ANASF(a few others) have a good bit of the country "secure", with about 75% of that coming from our dollars and resources. Shits about to hit the fan over here. You've got people [itch bay]ing that we're here and people [itch bay]ing about us leaving. What the [uck fay] do you want us to do? It's your goddamn country! Fight for it you hash smoking piece of shit.
     
  5. JayVols

    JayVols Walleye Catchin' Moderator

    I'm not sure it is just a 'Barry O' issue, Bill. We have been there over 10 years. I completely agree that I don't know what we should do to properly extract from there. Not much help in this situation, but the Afghanistan problem is just more glaring proof that our elected leaders do not learn the lessons of war.

    If a politician decides to go to war, we should go to war willing to do WHATEVER is required for complete victory. If not, don't go to war. We haven't done that since WWII. We tried limited war in Korea with varying degrees of modest (at best) results. We tried war on the cheap in Vietnam with worse results. Looks like we are headed in that direction again. The soldiers do their job as they are told with great proficiency and honor. They are let down by those that would rather handcuff our troops out of 'saving money, lives, etc'. Our approach to limited war has cost us in the long run. I really feel that we end up paying a heavy price for 'war on the cheap'. Go in, get it done, get out. Again, if we are not willing to do that, it may not be as crucial to go as some think. I could be way off, but that's how I see it.
     
  6. 7thgroupvolfan

    7thgroupvolfan New Member

    These withdraw time lines kill me. It's just too soon. It needs to happen, of course, but not in a matter of a several months. A more realistic time frame would be 2016-2017ish. Slowly start pulling guys back and get'em off the tit.
     
  7. volfanbill

    volfanbill Active Member

    I'm not against time lines in general, but I agree that it's all too quick. Whether you're in support of the war there or not, the US has spent over a decade there. Slowly pull away and let the pieces be set to make our time there worthwhile. Will be an embarrassment if over a decade of fighting is all for naught.
     
  8. IP

    IP Advanced Pruitt Apologetics Bot

    It was doomed to be an embarrassment from the start. We should have never occupied it, never tried to put a centralized government back in place. It WAS a waste of time and resources.

    We ought to have to have just gone in and busted up on Al Qaeda, slaughtered the leadership of the Taliban, and let them know if they make us come back, it will be even worse. Instead, we're trying to place house with tribals.
     
  9. justingroves

    justingroves supermod

    Exactly.
     
  10. volfanbill

    volfanbill Active Member

    I didn't just say it was a Barry O issue, but he has been the driving force behind getting out of Afghanistan and praising it as his great control the US military. As 7th said, the shit is about to hit the fan over there and the US isn't doing anything about it. Instead they are actually going the opposite direction. Drawbacks, cutbacks and extreme downsizing.What happens when this all blows up in our face and we don't even have the manpower any longer to support it long term?
     
  11. JayVols

    JayVols Walleye Catchin' Moderator

    I understand your points. It's been a cluster since it started in regards to the 'politics' of the war. That's sad as hell that it is that way. Again, only go if you are totally committed to win completely, quickly, and convincingly or don't go. Our military folks are the only group that has kept that place from utter chaos. You guys are awesome and appreciated. I just wish that the politicians would get out of your way when they decide to utilize force.
     
  12. volfanbill

    volfanbill Active Member

    I have no real clue what to do over there. People over there still think we're the Russians, they've never known any different. The country needs something to connect itself, but there is nothing. Kabul can't relate with MES, MES can't relate with Kandahar and people in Kandahar don't even know that Herat exists. Karzai's government can only do so much and right now the people are still too scared of the Taliban to do anything about them. That, or they are having to make their living from supporting the Taliban. Right now it's a lose-lose situation. The ALP and ANA are doing good things in a lot of areas, but a lot of them are dirty in their own way too, I can only imagine what will happen if we leave them so soon. Tribal leaders and district governors get bought out left and right to support the TB. Right now the economy in the areas that we have major bases is the locals supporting us. There are supposedly possibly trillions of dollars in untapped oil, natural gas and some minerals in the northern part of the country, but there's no way they can start tapping into those resources within the next two years. The Taliban and other anti-govt forces would quickly take over.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2012
  13. MaconVol

    MaconVol Chieftain

    I say we just blow their asses off the face of the planet and take any oil they have.
     
  14. Unimane

    Unimane Kill "The Caucasian"

    Pursuing, or continuing, a war to simply save face is a horrible line of reasoning. Our problem is that we have no real set agenda. It's this meandering conflict with little resolution and no defined goal.

    Here is our general problem with war in this country; we don't understand it's purpose. We see war as a constructive means to an end and it's not. Wars are destructive and create nothing of real value, yet we always have the stupid [uck fay]ing idiots who says we should "just bomb the shit out of them" when some kind of conflict arises.

    Anyway, wars also create problems. So, the question should be "Does the war create a better problem than the one we're dealing with now?" As you see in Afghanistan, have we created a "better" problem than the one that existed with the Taliban? Probably, but it's more than run its course.
     
  15. IP

    IP Advanced Pruitt Apologetics Bot

    No oil, but they do have gems. If you're a rock collecting enthusiast or something.
     
  16. IP

    IP Advanced Pruitt Apologetics Bot

    I agree completely.
     
  17. volfanbill

    volfanbill Active Member

    By continuing our presence there we can further along the growth of the ALP and ANA and get them in a position where are they are better suited to defend themselves against the Taliban and other forces. Leaving right now just to leave does nothing. I agree with Jay, when you go to war, you've got to be committed to see it through.
     
  18. 7thgroupvolfan

    7thgroupvolfan New Member

    I agree with this. When the goal was met in the first Iraq conflict(pushing Iraq out of kuwait) we also left behind the people who supported the U.S and they were killed. The U.S didn't take that into consideration during mission planning.

    There is a goal that can be met in this war. Unlike Iraq, Afghanistan had little or no infrastructure in place when the war started. They're leaps and bounds ahead now than before. I don't have to mention the cost it has taken to get them to this point. The process has been much slower and cost more than anyone had planned. There's no way we can leave now and expect this half ass government to survive on it's own. It's possible, but I just don't see it. They're not ready nor are all the tools needed for success in place. I can't help but feel this whole sudden withdraw is all about a certain election that is coming up. Thinking that the SOF community can just finish the job at this point is just dumb.
     
  19. justingroves

    justingroves supermod

    I agree but that would mean a lot of bodies and collateral damage. The way the media covers a war like it's a sporting event has made that impossible.
     
  20. CardinalVol

    CardinalVol Uncultured, non-diverse mod

    American, Western society for that matter, doesn't have the patience for this now. They expect a 30 day affair and then bring our boys home.

    I'm not sure what the answer is there. Truthfully, it may be to break the country up provincially and support each as opposed to as a whole.
     

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