COVID-19 (artist formerly known as Wuhan strain novel Corona virus)

Just checked the numbers, and on April 1, 1.4 million had been fully vaccinated

 

I was under the impression that the main purpose of the vaccine was to slow and, if enough people get vaccinated, eventually stop the spread? You kind of spoke to that in your last sentence, but I thought it was more about the sheer number of people who won't get the virus rather than anything about people who still get it not being as contagious.

In other words, if 90% of people who get vaccinated won't get the virus, those 10% who do aren't enough for the virus to continue spreading, and eventually, it disappears.

 

Yes, it’s both

But also the breakthrough cases are overwhelmingly cases that do not require hospitalization, so it also lessens the strain on the healthcare system when spike happen. Things may be bad in some areas now, but not as bad as they could be

 

One thing I've been wondering - how did COVID patients pay for their treatment? Insurance? What if they don't have it?

And now that the vaccine is out there and widely available, does that change? Can insurance refuse to cover your trip to the hospital for COVID if you refused to get the readily available vaccine? What if you don't have insurance? Seems like you should be on the hook for paying for it if you chose not to get the vaccine.

 

On your first question, I imagine it’s the same as any other illness. If you have insurance they will cover the portion that your plan would cover, and if you don’t have insurance the hospital is going to hit you with some absurd bill

On your second, well that’s the million dollar question. I’m with TennTrad, I don’t think there’s much they can do until it’s fully approved and not just EUA. After that, I have to think insurers aren’t going to give two shits about the “personal choices” of the insured that refuse a readily available and (to this point) free vaccine

 

the vaccine isn't free, we paid for it through tax revenue. it shows that national healthcare is a practical option. and for what it does, it is a freaking bargain.

 

Well, “no additional cost to the recipient”

But yes, agreed

 

Does it? The vaccine is something we knew we'd need for practically everyone. So everyone paid for something practically everyone is using. Most healthcare isn't like that.

 

Everyone will need healthcare at some point in their life unless they die of an accident, DOA, when they are young.

 

Healthcare as a whole is exactly like that. by your same reasoning, not everyone can receive a shot and not everyone would have ultimately gotten covid or have been severely affected personally. be consistent.

 

The purpose of a vaccine is not to stop the spread. That's a fortunate byproduct of vaccination.

Let's take something like polio. The purpose of a polio vaccine isn't to slow and stop the spread of polio. It's to ensure that people who encounter polio don't become paralyzed. Since enough people have gotten the polio vaccine, and we continue to vaccinate against polio, polio is more or less gone from this world. But that wasn't the purpose of the polio vaccine. It was just a byproduct of a vaccinated planet, since spread becomes impossible.

Limiting being contagious is how the spread stops. Let's suppose that I inject you with COVID, straight into your cells. Your cells then start replicating the virus. If you cough and only product 10 viral particles, but, let's say, 100 viral particles are necessary to get past my natural immunity toward all infections of all types, then the vaccine has done its job for both you and me. It's helped keep the viral load in check, so you don't have a serious illness. And it is helped keep you from spreading it. But it has not helped keep you from getting it in the first place. I injected it straight into you...

When we all get vaccinated, then we stop the spread. But until then, the vaccinated are going to encounter the virus. And since we're going to encounter it, that's like it being injected straight in to you. You've got it. How fast you clear it, whether you are affected or not at all, and whether you pass it along has more to do with your personal biology, than the vaccine.

 

They'll still need healthcare to pronounce them dead. That's an ER visit probably.

 

That's a bit of an oversimplification. Just because everyone will need healthcare doesn't mean that everyone will need the same amount, or that the cost of the healthcare one person needs will match that of another person.

And the significant, frequent healthcare one person needs could be primarily a result of that person's own poor health decisions, whereas another person's good health decisions could lead to them needing less. Why should those two people pay the same?

 

I don't understand what you are saying.

 

I have only had to call the cops once to my house (stolen pressure washer). I have never had to call the fire department. I have never had to fight off an invading force in my back yard.

Yet I pay for police, firemen and the military, just like you do. It is part of the price of being in a civilization, we have to pay for it. A more healthy citizenry makes for a better citizenry. I have no issues paying as much as someone that uses 10x the healthcare as I do as long as it is all spread out evenly. I never know when I am going to come down with leukemia and need 1 million in healthcare.

 

Your question is the same as asking "Why should someone who doesn't believe in war pay for tanks?" And the answer is and has always been: they don't, they pay taxes. What the taxes are used for is nothing specific.

So your question is really: "Why should government provide a minimum of health care?" And the answer to that question is simply because government has taken away the ability of people to seek their own care. And since they have taken away personal care, they should provide some level of minimum care.

 

Police are more of a deterrent than an actual in person service. Most people don't drive 120 mph on the interstate because they know there's a chance a police officer will pull them over. Most people don't rob houses or jump/rob pedestrians walking down the sidewalk because they know it could get them in trouble with the police/law. So while you've only had to call the police once, you're still benefitting from their service almost constantly.

Same thing with a military, for the most part. I'm sure we could have a discussion about some military spending being wasteful as well. But your example of "no one has invaded my back yard" is weird.

The fire department is probably your best example, but it's not the same, by any means. For the most part, we are all at a similar, small risk of having our houses catch on fire. Some healthcare is like that. You randomly coming down with leukemia is like that. But there's quite a bit of healthcare that exists as a result of people's personal decisions. The guy who drowns his liver and needs a transplant is not the same as you coming down with leukemia. The guy who eats like shit and suffers health complications resulting from being 350 pounds is not like you coming down with leukemia.

 

That's an oversimplification.

 

Yet we have the highest incarceration rate per capita in the world. This is a poor argument. I have only once ever (personally) needed a police officer.

I have never invaded another country (personally) nor had one invade my property. I have done nothing to instigate any such behavior (personally). Therefore, I don't need a military.

The guy who smokes like a chimney and sets his house on fire after falling asleep with a cigarette in his mouth is the direct correlation to this. I keep my house as fire safe as possible, and thus it is going to have a less chance of burning down than someone that uses a wood burning fireplace/stove and never cleans the chimney or burns pine in it.

 

It is basically a philosophical difference and nothing short of an epiphany on either side can ever change someone's views.

Either you think that the citizenry shouldn't have to pay for other people's follies or you think we are all better off if we all pitch in and cover one another, no matter what. I am sure my bias came through on that statement, but no judgement was meant for either side. I struggled trying to find a neutral way to say it.