I want to start this thread by saying that I don't want to offend anyone, so please don't take anything I say in this post or any further posts personally. I just don't understand depression. Is it a real thing? Is it as widespread in other countries as it is in the United States? Knowing some of the terrible things that go on in other places in the world, I just really struggle to understand how people with normal lives here can be depressed. Like it almost makes me angry just thinking about it. Shall we discuss?
It's very real. Some cases, like every other disease/ issue, etc, it can be over-medicated or what not. I never used to get depressed. But then I started living.
It's real and it's tricky. It's not something you feel, you just kind of are.* And unless you've previously dealt with a similar issue, how in the world would you know what was wrong with you? To that end, I feel like its a good idea to speak up when you have a friend or family member who is exhibiting clear signs of depression. In the absence of such a realization, a person could find themselves in a pretty dark place without really realizing what is going on in their headspace. *I shouldn't generalize. This might not always be the way it plays out, but I think in a lot of cases it is.
I think a tough thing with depression is that it you can pretty easily fall into it, but i think it probably takes real work to come out of it, and I'm not even sure that there's a good roadmap out there for becoming undepressed. I think that's probably where the conversation needs to focus when discussing depression. I mean, it seems pretty intuitive that you can go through a rough patch for various reasons and kind of get in your own head, for lack of a better phrase, but then how the hell do you get out of there? I'm not sure drugs should be the primary tool for treating depression. I'm also not saying that they aren't needed in a lot of cases, but just that they probably don't do anything to correct the underlying issue. Which is a major problem.
Depression is very real. But, it's the cause of depression - or maybe, whether the locus of control lies internally or externally - that could best shed some light on it for you, Indy. Essentially, the best first question is: are people depressed, or are they "depressing"? That's the fundamental question, really, because it sets the stage for how you identify, and more importantly, treat it. A quick example to consider: If a person were to tell you that their lives were filled with poor relationships, or they had no significant ones to speak of, that they had lost their desire to interact with others on a substantive level, had no appetite, didn't want to go outside, but instead, they just wanted to lay in their bed all day, without sunshine and with the covers pulled over their head. You'd say that person was depressed, and most psychologists / mental health professionals would agree, based on the assumption that the person was depressed, and that these were clear signs of it. But introduce that same person to William Glasser (were he still alive), and he'd say that if you took any normal person and forced them to do these things, they'd be "depressed", too. But Glasser would argue that the person was not "depressed", but was simply "depressing", or choosing to do these things, and in turn, it made them feel terrible. Most clinicians would argue that you "cure" the depression, and these "symptoms" would disappear. Glasser would argue that you fix these behaviors, and teach the patient not to choose to "depress" themselves, and it will all go away. I've studied Glasser and Choice Theory / Reality Theory for a significant amount of time, and while I don't agree with everything he espouses, I greatly admire his theories and approach, and believe them to be entirely valid and uniquely efficacious. He is unconventional in modern mental health, but damned if you can argue with his results. His theories have proven transformative for schools, delinquency homes, prisons, families and countless individuals. From his site (but which has also been well-chronicled in numerous other places: (emphasis mine) Link: http://www.wgia.org.au/index.php/education But be forewarned, he often makes his patients stop taking meds, and which I would NEVER recommend without first consulting your care provider. And, don't confuse or associate his stance on meds to that of Scientology, because his reasoning is entirely different, and he thought those people to be dangerously misguided and largely stupid. I'd recommend that you read as much as you can about the subject, from any source, but definitely include some material on Wiliam Glasser and his Choice and Reality Theories, amongst your readings.
I don't have much time to post now, but depression is very real. Its causes, however, are many and varied. And while some people's brains just are wired that way (imho), I think most people that suffer from depression can get out of it with a lot of work simply by changing the way they think. The brain is incredibly plastic and the old saying "if you repeat it enough, you will eventually believe it is true" is actually TRUE.
The only thing that works for me is what Tenny said. The medication "props" you up to where you can't feel sad, which is very unnerving. It is like fixing bad lighting on a television by jacking up the brightness- you know things don't look right. I can understand why it correlates with suicide, because you still feel depressed but at the same time you are more motivated/energetic. Sunshine, exercise, "faking it til you make it" can pull one out of the deeper funks. In my opinion it is a brain malfunction that has to be manually compensated for all the time, like a steering wheel pulling towards the right.
I've found that activity has been all that works for me, lexapro kind of levelled me off in a really bad time in my life, but I wasn't as much 'content' as I was 'not depressed'. Since my workload has increased substantially I've been pretty good, physical and mental activity. Of course, depression is something that I've grown to acknowledge will always be lurking around the corner for me, awareness of that fact helps.
In college I got to the point where I could barely walk through the parking lot of my dorm due to paranoia. I was in a cycle though where I'd work/class just fine but I couldn't sleep. I mean like 2 hours a night tops. I don't know if how the paranoia was linked to all that. At some point it culminated and I saw a therapist like 3 times. She decided I was clinically depressed and wanted to medicate. I wasn't on board with that. I began learning how to manage flare-ups as I liked to call them, and avoid triggers. Like most others have said, keeping busy, and a lot of hard self talk usually snaps me out of it when I feel it coming on
I think Glasser is half right, and the traditional view is half right. The traditional view is that depression -- or, more specifically, observable symptoms of depression -- are "caused" by external circumstances. We'll call this the Externality Theory. Glasser says that it's their actions and reactions themselves that are causing the person to feel down. We'll call this Internality Theory. But surely both are right (and thus both are wrong). A formerly social, energetic, motivated person doesn't just lay on the couch all day and feel withdrawn from society and antisocial while comforting themselves with Ben and Jerry's and 24 hour marathons of House M.D. in the absence of a conspiracy of negative external circumstances. And the guy who lays on the couch all day with his Ben and Jerry's and his television screaming paraneoplastic syndrome doesn't begin to feel like his former self again until he identifies that he's in a rut and takes positive steps to change his reality for the better. The external and the internal are integrally intertwined -- or perhaps ramming up against each other in a rhythmic fashion. This is the correct framework. We'll call it Balls Deep Theory.
I'm also gonna cosign the "faking it till you make it" part. I think one has to trick themselves out of a depressive state by acting undepressed.* That would be something that Glasser agrees with, and thus you see how Internality Theory, though flawed, is an essential component of the correct framework, Balls Deep Theory. *Why isn't this a word?
all I know is most of my immediate family (not talking about my wife or kids) have days when they wake up horribly depressed for no reason and that has never happened to me. that isn't to say I've never been depressed, but I've always had a reason. I do believe people are just wired different chemically. that isn't to say that there aren't non medication ways to alleviate the problem though.
I've always done this. and it works. of course the simple fact that it works for me might just mean i'm not clinically depressed.
Are we all basically in agreement that depression meds do not remedy the underlying condition but merely mask symptoms so as to make them tolerable?* *I should note that in severe cases this is an important function.
I know nothing about the issue, scientifically/biologically speaking, but would it be safe to say that for women, hormone fluctuations could play a major role in depression/depressed feelings?
I think it has to happen on a macro level, though. You can't just go take walks around the block and then everything is hunky dory. If, for example, the reason someone is down in the dumps is because they feel that their life basically lacks purpose, well then that person better find something that they're passionate about and get to living in a manner that they find fulfilling. Playing pickups games at the park will give you a nice oxygen buzz and make you feel better for the rest of the day, but isn't gonna be a long term solution to that person's problem.
