"Intelligent Design" and "Irreducible complexity"

Somewhat of a joke. If I thought I was wrong I would be with IP.

 

I don't mind these threads to be honest. Not only do I enjoy the various directions they go but I usually learn a thing or two from them. More often then not these threads are usually full of substance that everyone can enjoy.

 

Don't see why that would be necessary here. This place is far from a prayer group.

 

It's as close to a prayer group as any site i've ever been on. It doesn't offend me personally and i do enjoy the religous conversations.

 

If the shoe fits, wear it. We are talking about magic here. We saying that every living thing was designed and created by an unseen being that can do anything it imagines or wants that has just always existed. This is indistinguishable from thousands of other mythologies that you would think pretty silly.

 

That makes sense with much of what I understand about you from years of internet posting. And I would probably attach that to IP as well given the experiences.
I don't see either of you as the type to go on a country wide tour to eradicate/disprove those that believe in God. But given your stance instead of, I really don't care what people believe and or don't mind God in society because I don't believe it anyway, that kinda changes your approach to those that do. IMO.

We see things very similar, just from opposite sides.

 

The irony of being accused of "trying to convert people" by folks of a Christian persuasion...

It isn't conversion to want to start threads about things that interest me. That so many here fall in another camp just makes them that more interesting to start.

As to living in a "godless" society, yes I would have no problem with that so long as it was simply because no one wanted to be theists. Kpt's subtle jabs about me having a problem with Christianity shows his own cultural bias (Islam also believes in ID, irreducible complexity, etc) and makes about as much sense as me accusing anyone who ever mentions god as having a problem with atheists.

 

I can't speak for IP, but i don't care what people believe. I actually have a deep respect for religious people because of their passion for something I personally need to see to believe. on the other hand, i don't want other people's opinions shoved down my throat or religion involved in the public sector any way whatsoever. btw I will likely be sending my kids to catholic school, so i'm clearly not THAT anti religion.

 

Take out the christian beliefs about living/Jesus/Satan/sin/dying/eternity/heaven/hell. Why is it that hard to believe that what we see was created by something above us on the food chain (so to speak)?

 

What if I did go on a country wide tour to eradicate/disprove believers? Isn't that one of the major activities of Christianity and Islam? Are you saying there is something wrong with that?

I don't want to force anything on anyone, but I am not going to be silent about my opinions either. I don't travel around looking for people to confront on this. Ideas with roots in this get legislated on and pushed around in popular culture, so I speak up about it. ID isn't science. Yet it is being taught in some science classrooms. It is presented as being on even footing with evolution. It isn't. It is just repackaged creationism.

If I had been born in Saudi Arabia or India, it would be different. But I was born in America, where free speech is valued and the very origins of the country are rooted in rejecting the authority of religion over all things (divine right).

 

personally i have a much harder problem believing in the christian god than i do believing in a higher power of some sort. what are the chances that this one religion got it all right?

 

Because that isn't how nature is. You and I both started out as single cells and developed into what we are now. Why is it so hard to believe that we are the product of processes that have been in motion for billions of years? No divine spark necessary? In other words, why does the answer have to be divine? The origins of everything are just as fantastic and mind-boggling without inventing a new being to attribute it all to.

 

Agreed except for the catholic school part.

 

Just got off the phone with Larry, he said he created evolution......

 

Government/public driven christianity is not obtainable IMO even tho the door has to remain open for it to survive time. That discussion gets confusing because while I know I can't force you to believe anything, if its never brought up the chance dwindles to nothing.

When did Catholics find religion? Ha

 

i'm a strong believer in the jesuit's ability to teach kids to think. but also it's because the public schools here suck and the decent private ones are twice the price. i'm not threatened by my kid being exposed to different ideas either.

 

I don't understand your first paragraph.

 

I have more objections to the Catholic Church than I do American protestants. That being said, you are right that you live in a place where it is a fair deal. And I don't blame you for being find with your kid being exposed to different ideas either. If kids aren't indoctrinated in religion, by and large they never buy it later.

 

we already have quite a bit of it and clearly some think it's very important and wont stop trying to get god into the schools and such. I think it's a bit arrogant to assume that anything you say could convert an adult. the vast majority of people i know who "found god" late in life were searching for SOMETHING or were alcoholics or drug addicts and this is their new addiction.

I have issues with the catholic church too i assure you.

 

For me? No harder than believing that it had a design and a starting point.

Would it be less interesting/mind boggling in your field if you thought a higher being created all of this?