Discussion in 'The Thunderdome' started by volfanjo, Oct 6, 2011.
I agree with that.
To be clear MG, I am not saying you blow [Richards]. I was using "blowing [Richards]" for being a conservative idealogue who is in lock-step with the talking points of that viewpoint. I think it is pretty sad how hypocritical the Right is being over these folks, compared to what was said about the Tea Party when they were doing the same things.
the Tea Party vandalized private businesses and shit on police cars?
get the [uck fay] outta here....
Where has that been linked or discussed in this thread?
Where has that been linked or discussed in this thread?
It is odd to me how some many conservatives talk about bringing this country "back to the constitution," but pick and choose what that would look like.
NY protesters clean park, some may resist removal | The Associated Press | Nation | Washington Examiner
They're cleaning the parks?! Those barbarians!
Constitution is shaky on this, because of the 1st Amendment.
The first bit I'd call to question is "peaceably" to assemble. If the assembly is not peaceful, then it has no 1st Amendment protection. The larger a movement, the harder to "peaceably" assemble.
The second bit I'd call to question is the first bit: "Congress shall make no law." That part is kind of key, but semantics. It doesn't say that people always have a right to assembly, it says congress shall make no law prohibiting assembly. A city is not Congress. Bare with me, because this will be rather contrived, but if the City of New York has ordinances, or enforces laws against assembly, they are doing so outside the constraints of the Constitution, as they are not Congress.
Granted, there isn't a judge in this country that would uphold that viewpoint, as there have been countless cases thrown out with charges dismissed when protesters are arrested. But, depending on how "conservative" one wants to view the Constitution... well, that is on the individual.
Case is weak, but give it some thought. Won't stand, wasn't entirely the purpose, but the 1st Amendment is actually quite explicit as to whom it is forbidding from acting.
You make it sound like these are not peaceable assemblies...
There has been legal precedent barring company-towns from banning or disbanding assemblies protesting something company-related, if the space being used is deemed as having a function of public accessibility. These parks definitely fall under such a classification.
some of the OWS aren't peaceful and it could be argued that defecating on police cars, public nudity, sleeping on city sidewalks/streets, and disrupting the daily lives of local residents and businesses aren't "peaceful" either.
another big difference between OWS and the Tea Parties is that the TP never allowed itself to be defined by the fringe element it attracted (especially if that element was "planted" by leftist groups in an attempt to discredit the TP). OWS, lacking a cohesive message and a cohesive leadership structure, is at the mercy of the flea-bag anarchist, G20 protest-type ruffians.
it also doesn't help when anti-capitalism is at the core of your protest, yet you rely on technology that only capitalism could have produced
Are big football games in the south considered violent assemblies? All of the things you mentioned are known to occur.
NOW I see what all the fuss is about in this thread. At first I didn't get it. Why would these guys be upset when a group of Leftists are calling into question the democratic status-quo? I mean, at least they are asking questions, right?
But it is because there can't be a "Left" version of the Tea Party. Someone can't be an pissed off "every day citizen" unless they're a right-wing every-day citizen.
Newsflash- A large segment of the country thinks the Tea Party is a bunch of fringe whack-jobs. Many more suspect it. The only ones who think the Tea Party is filled with stand-up regular Joes with great ideas are Tea Party members.
The Tea Party's initial foundation was Obama's health care plan. OWS's initial foundation appears to be anti-capitalism/consumerism. Yes, it is much more abstract and ambitious than the Tea party. What is funny is that a lot of the lazy criticism hurled at the early Tea Party is the same shit that is being served up by the political establishment and the media now as well. If only you could appreciate the symmetry. The "masses" do not look like Republicans and Democrats. They look like Tea Partiers and OWS.
I think the concept of worshiping at the altar of "capitalism" as if it were something more than a descriptive net-process of all entities seeking only profit is on its way out. It isn't about it "not working" or "working." It isn't a tool or a form of government. It's just an economic or valuation system, and one we've never even truly experienced in an unfettered way. Because of it's ability to override other economic systems it has been crowned as superior, as if ideas had to all be placed in the Thunderdome and whichever one destroyed the others was automatically supreme.
I don't want to derail this into a discussion of some people's obsession over capitalism being the answer to all the world's problems and the cause of none. Perhaps we should start another thread.
this is horseshit. if it were true, then there's no way the Nov. 2010 elections would have turned out the way they did
It's a horseshit world, my friend.
At what point have you made your point?
That is a matter of perspective.
Set me up a .50 cal machine gun 100 yards from the protest. It will take a lot longer to clean up the mess, than it took me to send the survivors scurrying back to Mom's basement. I'm guessing about 5 minutes of full auto fire should do the trick.
Occupy Boston protesters spit on Coast Guard member
Freakin' socialist scum!
No respect for the sacrifices of all who have died to preserve the Constitution and this great nation. These people do not deserve to be protected by the veil of liberty, because they only use it to shit on it.
Worthless [uck fay]s
Okay, two opposing thoughts here:
A. You guys are ridiculously blood-thirsty and spiteful towards this group. With the Tea Party, any negativity was (probably rightly) credited to plants and no-good-nicks that exist in any part of society. Yet with these guys, any isolated incident of spitting, defecating on a cop car, etc. is held up as the "norm." Seems hypocritical. Obviously politically this group is very different from most of you. But they are at the minimum rejecting the status quo, which is a positive in itself and something we need a lot more of. The more we question things, the more likely we are to come up with better alternatives.
B. I just got a hard recruiting pitch from a seemingly homeless drifter with a face covered in tattoos to join him in "Occupy Boulder." He said he had just been "chased out of Denver" with tear gas and was trying to restart the movement here. The guy was a cretin. I overheard him speaking to someone about how cities don't have the "congressional authority" to "use excessive force" like riot police like they did.
Okay. I don't even know what the hell he means if he thinks city SWAT is illegal. Furthermore, I happen to know the "Occupy Denver" movement was pretty much a mob of homeless people trying to start a riot. So... ya, riot police are going to come if you do that.
like I said before, IP, the Tea Party didn't allow itself to become defined by the fringe that showed up at it's rallies.
OWS, lacking cohesive leadership and message, is now allied with some of the same left-wing agitator groups that comprised the anti-war rallies that occurred during the Bush administration. There are some OWS people who are trying to stay on message, and they are to be commended, reducing the love affair between Washington and Wall St. is a good thing for everybody. However, those people are having the air sucked out of the room every time an outside influence like a celebrity or some nutjob politician like Hugo Chavez speaks out in solidarity.
Just had Occupy Boulder march by. Seem to be pretty much on message. I think there is a lot of partisanship in how some of you are perceiving this group. Ya, there are a lot of dummies in the crowd. But I think the same thing with the Tea Party.
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