Obama Surveillance of Trump

Discussion in 'The Thunderdome' started by Tenacious D, Apr 4, 2017.

  1. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    First, let me say the same thing about this as the whole "Russian" silliness: Show. Me. Proof.

    But, if this is true, it is incredibly troubling for anyone who fears the tyrannical potential of an unchecked government, and could possibly rise to the level of being a criminal act.

    What it will say about Obama, and the staining damage it will mean to his legacy, may be difficult to fully calculate.

    And it will almost assuredly vindicate Trump's accusations of his team being surveilled, and which many so quickly and scoffingly dismissed. Had Trump been accused of this, and this kind of preliminary evidence indicated that such was even possible, the Dems would be screaming impeachment...and might have a point.







    Link: http://circa.com/politics/accountab...e-consumed-unmasked-intel-on-trump-associates
     
  2. ben4vols

    ben4vols Contributor

    Agree. This is the first real substantial damning piece of info brought forth in the Obama spygate story.
     
  3. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    I don't know that it is "damning", simply because I'm no more willing to accept a purely anonymous news source on its face value, than I was similarly unwilling to do the same on the "Russian involvement" story. I certainly prefer to have it both ways, and sometimes go to great lengths in hopes of achieving it, but am capable of denying myself the same on the rare occasion, however reluctantly.

    This is one such occasion.

    But the seriousness of the accusation certainly demands it, I think.

    Because if this is ultimately proven to be true, then there exists some possibility - perhaps however unlikely and remote - that a sitting POTUS actively and seditiously sought to undermine, overrule, subvert, subdue or otherwise diminish the authority of his duly elected successor, and in a very real sense, both democracy and the Will of the People, themselves. Simply, this will easily transcend even the ever-increasingly and notably dirty game of politics, itself. If this is ultimately proven to be true, those responsible will be exceedingly fortunate to only go to jail, and their Party - or any other who seek to defend them - will be "smashed into 1,000 pieces", despite however either of those transgressions may have occurred or was intended.

    I personally believe - and that's all it is - that Trump's election was so repugnant to the deep intel state, to President Obama, his Administration, and the whole DC machine....that this is more likely to have occurred, than not. I believe it to be entirely reasonable to assume it possible, no matter your politics.

    I wouldn't put it beyond the dealings of Obama or his administration, but would be curious to see if anyone else would be so willing to state a flat denial that such is possible to have occurred.

    But again, as Jay says, "Let it all come to light", and I'll add: "Bring. Me. Proof."
     
  4. Unimane

    Unimane Kill "The Caucasian"

    I find the possibility remote that Obama did this, especially being so careless and transparent in his efforts, and far less likely than the Trump collusion with Russia, which has a lot more smoke coming from it, even though I don't believe either happened. Like I said, what Rice did was, likely, neither improper, nor scandalous acting in her role as NSA.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/susan-rice-trump-unmask-intelligence-wiretap-2017-4
     
  5. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    This seems pertinent to the thread, and not just from another anonymous source:

    Former US Attorney: Susan Rice Ordered Spy Agencies To Produce ‘Detailed Spreadsheets’ Involving Trump

    (All emphasis is mine)

    Link: http://dailycaller.com/2017/04/03/s...roduce-detailed-spreadsheets-involving-trump/
     
  6. NorrisAlan

    NorrisAlan Founder of the Mike Honcho Fan Club

    If Trump colluded with a foreign power to undermine his opponent, he should be removed from office.

    If Obama illegally and aggressively used the power of his Presidency to try to subvert the candidacy of a person running for the office, he should be brought up on charges and dragged before the People.

    Hillary should already be in prison for her future tradings scam alone.
     
  7. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    What if she requested these detailed surveillance reports on Trump - even communications that had nothing to do with Russia - and unmasked the names before passing it along to unauthorized others?

    What if she used the information to brief Obama? What about Hillary? What if only as a ploy to instigate the whole "Russia" silliness?

    Or, perhaps the best question - IF THIS IS PROVEN TO BE TRUE...What do you think should happen to her, Un, and to anyone who was involved, either actively or by complicity, or who knew or should have known, and failed to stop her? What should happen to those people, again,IF THIS IS PROVEN TO BE TRUE?
     
  8. MWR

    MWR Contributor

    And these people are our leaders.
     
  9. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    Perhaps the "Russian Connection" isn't the story, but only what is hoped to be a retroactively convenient cover for that which occurred before Trump was POTUS?
     
  10. IP

    IP "You don't know what it is like in our universe."

    I'm missing where trump's candidacy was undermined. Nothing was said about his staff possibly colluding with Russia until after the election. If I were trying to undermine his candidacy, I'd have been leaking stuff far sooner. Flynn would have been toast.
     
  11. JayVols

    JayVols Walleye Catchin' Moderator

    Or perhaps The Russian Connection is the reason Team Trump continually showed up in surveillance because they were talking to people under active surveillance. I'm stupid, but I fail to see your people continuously showing up in surveillance of foreign entities as being a good thing, but what do I know?

    We'll find out eventually.
     
  12. JayVols

    JayVols Walleye Catchin' Moderator

    This is the real Obama "crime" if there is one. If there was cooperation and he knew but a failed to tell, I'll never forgive him for that. IF....
     
  13. Unimane

    Unimane Kill "The Caucasian"

    And, perhaps not, and the Russia story, which has far more smoke, really is the real story. Look, anyone who does anything illegal should face consequences, regardless of party affiliation. It's not lost on me that you are digging and reaching way harder into this than anything regarding the Trump team, but, that's no biggie, to me. I know we all have our biases and use them to base our perception as close to what we want it to mean as much as possible. I do the same often, likely.

    If we were to put it out on the table and what I think is, probably, true without the benefit of smoking gun proof, it's this. Trump has some sketchy Russia connections due to his fairly well known connections to Russian mob money that has helped finance various projects. He has surrounded himself with some figures with some questionable connections to Russian money, criminal figures and intelligence characters, as well. I find the possibility that someone on the Trump team talked, possibly colluded, with someone/people in Russia to influence the election as highly likely. However, I don't think it will lead to Trump having knowledge of, much less masterminded, the deal. One, his people probably don't want to expose him and, two, he's not the sort to be able to do the long game or plot some great plan like Keyser Soze. He just does stuff and his underlings pick up the pieces.

    Rice, as the NSA, is aware of shady shit clearly going on in and around people associated with Trump and his campaign, so it's obvious she gets involved. How far she went, and if it was too far, remains to be seen, but I doubt much will happen in regards to this new revelation to the story. Obama going full Nixon seems a silly theory for me, an attempt to deflect from the problematic, and never ending (As I told you it would be) Russia problem for Trump.
     
  14. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    I think the undermining part comes after the election, when he wasn't "candidate" Trump, but "President-elect" Trump.

    Flynn's conversations with the Russians occurred after the election, and he was part of the official transition team, and not before, as a private citizen. Hence, the existence - and perfect timing - of the scandal.

    I don't know what's true, and I should be clear about that, first and foremost. But the alleged "use-investigating-Russian-ties" to explain why Trump was being surveilled a year before the election, and was not for purely political reasons alone, is an interesting one, and which may have some substantive legs to it. Recall, prior to his being inaugurated, you can withhold everything.....but if such surveillance took place, and was so expansively done as has been alleged, you can't hide that info from the sitting POTUS. Or at least either very well, or for very long.
     
  15. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    Trey Gowdy, like any good (former) prosecutor, never asks a question that he doesn't already know the answer to...asks Comey a curiously specific list of names at the 4:00 mark...

    [youtube]eI8Eag_9LJ8&app[/youtube]

    Maybe he's just fishing. I have no idea what's true.
     
  16. ben4vols

    ben4vols Contributor

    Bingo. Now go back and revisit the war inside the intel community during the last month of the election.
     
  17. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D The law is of supreme importance, or no importance

    You could both be absolutely correct.

    But that there is infinitely more substance on this - names, known sources, the ostensible availability of a clear paper trail, active members of the Admin, the possible but clear commission of a crime, etc. - than the entirety of the "Trump/Russian" connection, seems rather obvious. But, I am admittedly biased.
     
  18. ben4vols

    ben4vols Contributor

    TRUMP AND HIS ENTIRE TEAM WAS UNDER SURVEILLANCE FOR OVER A YEAR!! This is a fact. If there was anything remotely close to a Russian collusion, a) it would have come out before the election and b) it would have damn sure come out before now and his figurative corpse would be dangling from a rope in front of Congress. To deny this is to deny reality. There is no proof of a Russian connection. Give it up.

    The bigger story and possibly the biggest story of the new century...deep state is in deep trouble. Trump/Sessions/and a few members of Congress, if they have the courage to do it, can unmask the deep state and expose them to the public. Nuremberg style trials. The majority of people aren't ready for that....yet. They just need more time and info, with plenty more info coming. This is only the tip.
     
  19. kptvol

    kptvol Super Moderator

    Makes me want to put on an "I Voted" pin. So proud.
     
  20. JayVols

    JayVols Walleye Catchin' Moderator

    As are we all.

    Like I said, I think we'll get answers in time.
     

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