Bogeyman can kill seemingly indiscriminately without cause or apparent reason. Kind of like abortion from the victim's point of view.
There never was a baby if the pregnancy was aborted. That's what abortion means. It is why the term "after birth abortion" is a laughable political creation. If what you say is true then the pro-life movement and these laws would be making some kind of distinction between a nonviable fetus and a viable one. They do not. You can't murder a "person" who doesn't have and never had a brain, as they are already by any definition dead as a person (though I suppose tissue could be living, which really takes us back to the start of this circle since that is how organ donation works and such). If a fetus has no brain and cannot survive disconnected from the mother, that is what the pro-life movement and these laws are referring to as "murder" even though that is clearly not the case but no distinction is being made. Which is probably because (in my opinion) the underlying arguments and purpose of these talks has nothing to do with being "pro-life," but rather "pro not interfering with reproductive processes."
Can we just start pulling the plugs on all the veggies out there taking up space? I mean, they too are completely disconnected, are they not? What is their viability? You seem to think that most abortions are done in the best interest of the child, I couldn't disagree more.
a person in a vegetable state at least at some point was conscious and had thought. We call them vegetative, yet a fetus is even more so. I think most are in everyone's best interests at the point such a thing comes up. I don't see much difference in the prospects of my parents opting for an abortion when pregnant with me and with them deciding to have sex on Friday instead of Monday. either way, I wouldn't exist.
Perhaps. But still, it can be decided, just like anything else, correct? Contemplating all that may then come from whatever decision is made is putting the cart before the horse, IMO. Shouldn’t it be decided, and someone’s rights ultimately have to take precedence, when conflicts such as these, occur?
Can I kill an adult who was lived in a vegetative state since birth? Would you support the repeal of any laws which can now punish me for destroying the eggs of endangered animals, such as condors, turtles, etc.? What about laws that now prohibit women for killing or permanently harming their in uterian fetuses with alcohol and drugs, in utero? Can those now go away, too? Why not let me kill any animal, at any time, or even to torture it for my own amusement - given that they don’t experience the same consciousness as fully functioning humans? These are all sincere questions.
I always wondered how folks like Josef Mengele could completely detach themselves from the humanity of their victims but apparently it’s pretty easy once you deny a living being it’s “personhood” or relegate them to some inferior class of consciousness...
The Nazis systematically removed all humanity from the Jews. And I’m not at all equating anyone to a Nazi, on any side, but just commenting to your post and to your point, directly.
There are numerous practicing government models that are inspired by socialist principles and have not slipped into totalitarianism. The rabbit hole you’re likely driving toward here is that when you buy the masses you can get a unique grip on the people that can lead to totalitarianism. I think that can be true and there are examples of that.
1. do you mean can you stop feeding them and changing their bedding, etc, or like shoot them? 2. I think you can do the former, if it is you who has authority over the body. I don't think you can do the latter and the difference would be the agency involved as well as the perception. A body that is and always was brain dead was never a living person, imo. but it can't stay alive as a body and tissue without someone's great effort and expense, and thus to destroy it would be akin to terminating a pregnancy against a women's will-- murder in spirit, by law, but not by Christian and Jewish scripture. 3. no, just like I wouldn't support you terminating other people's pregnancies against their will. 4. Those laws are for the benefit of those who will be born, not those who never will be, so no. 5. a born animal (large mammal wise) has more consciousness than something never born. A spay of a pregnant dog or cat, which means the removal of undeveloped kittens and puppies, is completely legal and occurs by the hundreds every day in this country. it costs a little more than a normal spay because if the additional tissue and circulation making it more labor intensive. It isn't a pleasant thing and should not be done lightly, but it is a thing. further my chief concern regarding animal torture and such isnt the animal itself, but the person inflicting it. if one derives pleasure from causing pain, it's going to lead to worse behavior and eventually animals may not be enough. treating other creatures humanely is about humanity. one can shoot a deer and eat it all in an ethical and respectful manner. one can not inflict pain for entertainment in a respectful manner. if someone were deliberately racking up abortions because they got off on it, it would be some sort of self mutilation and would be a sign of a sick individual. we may not agree on abortion, but we would find common ground in finding such a person to be deeply unwell and requiring intervention.
I’m not making that comparison directly to anyone either... but to me there is a certain similarity in the mindset that would deny humanity to a living being in order to justify killing it.
I think words have meaning. in India a rock can be someone's God and even unintentionally kicking or disturbing it can be a high order crime, because it is a being and you kicked it. don't go around comparing the holocaust to women choosing their own reproductive processes. otherwise you'll be telling many holocaust survivors that they are perpetrators too, given what many women did within the camps. and they don't deserve to hear that BS.
What else would you call a situation in which millions have been deprived of their lives in the name of convenience, be it economic, medical or otherwise? We can argue about what constitutes “life” all day long but TO ME... in MY OPINION, abortion is nothing less than genocide.
What is a “fetus” 5 minutes before it’s born? 2 months before? 6 months before? It’s a developing human being. It’s amazing how quickly science people get all philosophical over this
