The Indy Talks To Himself (NBA) Thread.

If you're not going to watch the games, and you're not going to read the posts, what the [uck fay] are we even doing here?

Kerr has 4 championships in 8 years. Doc has 1 in 20+ years. Bud has 1 in 10 years. Monty has 0 in 13 years. If you can't see the difference between Kerr and the other three, I can't help you.

Again, Tatum had a decent/developing midrange game. It has gone away. He is 100% built to exploit smaller players in the midrange. Tatum is able to get the mismatch without his coach telling him exactly what to do. He targeted Max Strus last night just fine. The problem is that once he identifies the mismatch, his only option is to a shoot a 3 over him (which Strus is heavily working to prevent), or drive past him (which help defenders are sitting back waiting for). He doesn't have the skillset to back Strus down in the post. Because it's not something he's developed. Because his coach wants 3's and layups.

 

You understand that 2 pt shooting % is impacted by ALL 2 point shots, including dunks, layups, and midrange, correct? His 2 pt shooting % is up by .5 because he is getting to the rim more and not working in the midrange as much. The higher FT attempted number supports that claim as well. Again, the numbers are out there. He is taking less midrange jumpers.

And playoff basketball is different than the regular season. Teams see you every other night for 7 games straight. They're going to take away what you like to do and try to make you uncomfortable. That's why a guy like Jimmy Butler is thriving - because he can get to the rim, he can exploit smaller defenders in the midrange, he can make you pay if you double him, and he can hit the 3 when he needs to. Tatum doesn't have the midrange option, so if you take away his ability to drive, the only way he beats you is if he gets hot from 3. Sometimes he does, like at the end of game 6 against Philly, or throughout game 7. But if he doesn't, he struggles.

You're out of your element, Donny.

 

You just argued his 2 pt % is up because he’s getting to the rim more and counted it as a negative. In what hoops world is shooting a higher % because you get to the rim more, a bad thing?
I don’t have interest in being in your element as to how you see hoops much of the time. If he shoots more midrange than shots at the rim, he will miss more. Why in the world would you push for him to take more shots he will miss if he’s getting to the rim more, scoring more, getting fouled more and shooting a higher % than he ever has?

 

Midrange shots make up 9% of nba shots, but it’s Mazullas fault Tatum doesn’t shoot more

 

You're not reading the posts. I just explained why it's a bad thing in the playoffs (with a specific example from last night's game) to not have a midrange game to fall back on. Just read the damn posts. Here they are again for you:

 

You probably have more general basketball knowledge than me, but you're trying to argue about something specific that you don't watch/know much of anything about (NBA, or these specific teams). I watch the games, read about them, listen to podcasts about them. My general knowledge is good enough to know that layup > midrange jumper, but you're knowledge of the specifics is non-existent (and you won't even read my posts explaining things to you), so you don't understand why Tatum can't get to the rim for layups in certain situations of playoff basketball.

 

This Denver/LA game is going to be a battle. Curious to see if LA's 2nd half carries over. I'm thinking it does, so how will the Nugs adjust?

 

Playoffs are up a notch intensity so shots can be more difficult.
I’m glad you enjoy nba reg season. It’s boring to me and glorified scrimmage much of the time.
For all you watch and read, your takes on coaches who get credit or don’t for titles, who and when depending on how you see fit, and take on Mazulla taking away Tatums midrange game when the NBA has gone from 30% to 9% midrange the last few years is just silly, especially considering his stats this year. And to add opinion, Tatum bringing the ball from low like he likes to do isn’t the best technique to perfect a midrange game and a shot teams are taking 1 of every 10 shots

 

On Butler v Tatum, Tatum shoots 7 3s a game compared to Butler less than 1. Butler obviously not as big of a threat from 3, which is why he has to shoot midrange, and Tatum being a threat from 3 is why his 2pt% is at a career best. Going to Tatum in the post seems like it would be a good idea, but he’s not going to take those 12 foot baseline fadeaways, which in reality aren’t great shots

 

What are my takes on coaches who get credit and don't for titles? I've stated Kerr gets credit because he's won 4 in 8 years, and the 3 guys fired have 2 in 40+ years. That's not exactly an earth shattering take. And the only coach who has a title that I've commented on directly is Bud.

Call the Tatum stuff silly all you want. Did you watch the game last night? Why do you think had 0 FG attempts in the 4th quarter? Why do you think he had 3 turnovers in 4 possessions down 5 with under 3 minutes to go in the game? Miami sold out on stopping him from shooting the 3, and they helped on his drive to prevent him from getting to the basket. No 3's, no layups, and he doesn't have the midrange game to make them pay for it. You're just wrong, man. Here, watch for yourself:

 

Thank you, basketball reference dot com. Keen insight there. Except still wrong. Jimmy averages 1-2 a game in the regular season, but it jumps up to 4 in the playoffs. And he's hitting them at a pretty good percentage as well. He's plenty of a threat from 3.

Tatum's 2 point percentage is up because he shoots less midrange and more layups. But, again, that means [uck fay] all in a playoff series where the other team is selling out on preventing you from getting to the rim.

 

How does him shooting midrange make them pay for it. They played good D and help D. So what. Backing into a fade 12 footer is a solution down by 7 with 1 minute left?
What I see is what I see in a lot of nba games late when they go 1 v 1 and have 4 players standing around watching. The nba game is not a midrange game, or they would shoot more of them. Tatum has taken the same amount of 2 pointers the last 3-4 seasons so your argument that Mazula ruined his midrange game is nonsense.

 

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ssmiff: "Tatum shoots 7 3s a game compared to Butler less than 1."

Also ssmiff: "Look at this graphic that says Jimmy Butler shoots 1.6 3's per game in the regular season.

Which number is higher, ssmiff, 1.6 or less than 1?

And then there's the playoff numbers, which are the only ones that matter, and, as I mentioned, are higher.

You're struggling man. Just move on.

 

Late 4th quarter NBA playoff games are ABSOLUTELY a midrange game. You get your mismatch in the pick and roll, you isolate him on one side of the basket, you back him down, you hit the open teammate for a 3 if they send the double, and if they don't double, you either get to the basket or you shoot over the smaller defender in the midrange. It's what makes Jimmy and LeBron so effective late in big games. Tatum is missing the midrange part of it, and Brown doesn't have the vision to beat the double team in the same way as the others.

Tatum taking the same amount of 2 pointers in the last 3-4 season does not mean he is taking the same number of midrange jumpers. I don't know how many times I can say that before you read and comprehend it, but I'm done repeating myself.

 

LOL at comparing two players, saying one is a threat from 3 and the other isn't, while the "non-threat" is shooting a higher 3 pt percentage in the playoffs this season. Less volume, sure, but the point stands regardless.

 

meant makes less than 1. Career average is .6 made per game and 1.6 taken.
In his last 6 playoff games going back to April 30, he’s made 3. Teams will give him that shot, like they did when he shot 3/10 a few weeks ago, which skewed your “avg 4 attempts per game” rationalization.
They are different players.

 

1 of every 10 shots is midrange, yet you say teams use them in crunch time.
And no shit it doesn’t mean he’s taking the same amount of midrange, ironhead. He’s taking it to the rack more for a higher % shot, making more and shooting more fts from it. You really think you know better what he needs to do than him, his coaches, trainers and analytics guys? The arrogance comes from watching reg season or what?
Hey J, we want you to not take it hard to the rim. Get to the ft line less. Wed like you backing in and shooting a 13 foot shot near the elbow better. You’d get fouled less and make less, but that’s what we want

 

I'm saying you need to have the midrange in your bag during crunch time. Jimmy does, and Tatum doesn't.

You continue to focus on regular season stats. Why? Butler makes 1.2 3's per game in the playoffs for his career.

But yeah man, totally. Let's isolate it back to April 30th and only look at his series against the Knicks, where he was injured and didn't need to exercise anything close to his full powers to gentleman's sweep them. That makes a ton of sense, rather than looking at the previous series against the much tougher opponent (Bucks), where he DID have to exercise his full powers and shot 12/27 from 3 (44.4%) for the series.

Jimmy doesn't go all out during the regular season. He doesn't even go all out in every playoff series. He only goes all out when it's required of him in order to win. Teams give him that shot at their own peril. He's good enough at it that they have to respect it, which they do.

 

I said that individual players have the ability to shoot them in crunch time, which makes them more dangerous as a "get a bucket" type of player. Like, this isn't a point that's up for debate man. It happens. I see it.

Arrogance has nothing to do with it. I watch the games. I watched the 3 turnovers in 4 possessions as it was happening. I watched him no-show in game 6 against Philly until he hit those 3 3's late. If teams are playing your 3 point shot hard, and they have good rim protection when you drive, you have to be able to back a mismatch down and shoot over shorter defenders. He doesn't have it in his bag.

The FT stuff is silly. Refs swallow the whistle more late in close playoff games anyway. Sometimes a short jumper over a smaller defender who can't really impact your shot can be better than driving in and getting hacked 3 times with no call.

You're acting like I'm telling you "players shoot nothing but midrange jumpers for the last 5 minutes of every game." That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that if you don't have the midrange in your game, you're easier to shut down and won't be as good at getting a bucket as a guy who has that midrange option.

Watch the games, and you'll agree.