The Indy Talks To Himself (NBA) Thread.

What would losing to a team that has been destroying everyone since January say about Curry and Green?

 

:eyeroll:

They needed 7 to beat a Bucks team missing it's 2nd best player. Then they needed 7 games (and a missed 3 late) to beat a Miami Heat team that was basically missing its best player for 3 games. Not to mention the Kyle Lowry and Tyler Herro injuries.

They haven't been "destroying" everyone.

 

Why did you type this?

 

Because the emojies on here suck.

 

They’re already HOFers, and have dominated the league, but 2 of their 3 championships came with KD and the one they got Kyrie was hurt on that cavs team if I remember correctly. None of that’s their fault necessarily, but they shouldn’t lose to this Boston team if they’re what we’ve all made them out to be.

 

Including those games they are 40-13 since January 23, with an average +15 margin in the regular season part of it. If you'd rather call them the best team in the NBA since then, which is also true and doesn't meaningfully change my point, have at it. If the Warriors didn't have the 2021 Suns path to the Finals I'm not sure they'd be here, I don't think it's a black mark against Curry if they lose

 

Kyrie and Kevin Love were injured. And they still needed 6 to beat LeBron.

A lot of the revisionist history about the Warriors over the last few weeks has been funny. People talk about that championship they lost to the Cavs as if it was "bad luck." Those same people also pretend they didn't win a title against a team decimated by injuries the year before.

Warriors with KD were unreal. Without him? They'll be remembered for a lot more than they really were.

 

Why bother expanding the sample size out to 53 games when you can look at the last 16 and clearly see that they aren't "destroying everyone?" Why include regular season games as if they are in any way comparable to playoff games?

Also, either I'm misunderstanding what you are saying, or your math is wrong. They've lost 12 games in the playoffs (6 against the Bucks, 6 against the Heat) and lost 7 regular season games in the period you listed. Not gonna count the wins, but that would be 40-19. And if you push it back to January 19th, they'd be 40-21.

I think it's absolutely a black mark against Curry if his team, with all this Finals experience, loses to this Boston team, with no Finals experience.

 

Why is he smiling?

 

They lost 3 each against those teams, so I guess including the Finals it's 13-7 in the playoffs and 41-14 total. Everyone knows the defense is #1 but I think in that stretch it's been a wide margin. This Warriors team isn't the 2015 Warriors either, Klay and Draymond aren't the same and Poole can hurt them on defense when he isn't scoring

 

Lol - long day. Still working. Thanks for setting me straight on the totals.

Thoughts on the Warriors, as well as the sample size still stand.

Now do Looney.

 

No worries, hope it ends soon. Looney has been great for them, but going big with a center isn’t really their style; it’s on them to be adaptable but it’s an adjustment. During the season I think most felt like they could win a series or two, but they didn’t strike me as a championship team. Now they’ve beaten two injured teams and Luka + Jalen Brunson and I think the hype train has gotten a little ahead of how good they actually are.

 

I’ll throw this out there too for fodder: the one they got with kyrie and love out makes up for the one they should have gotten if Draymond wasn’t suspended when they lost the 3-1 comeback. That team was the best they’ve been without KD.

I actually was a big warriors fan back when David Lee was the PF and they couldn’t get past the clips in the playoffs. Had family out there and they were my favorite 2k team. Once KD got there it felt sleazy, so I kind of let it go. Still have a soft spot for them, but I saw the luck that they needed at times to win which all teams do really. If lebron had been in the west with the heat/cavs I think he has a few less finals appearances. And his finals losses I hold against him. If the warriors lose this I’ll definitely hold it against them too.
I also take regular season stats with a grain of salt given the tanking and watching seasoned teams realize the games don’t matter until playoff time. I think teams with something to prove play hard in the regular season, but those that have been there realize the weight of it, do what they need to be ready when it counts.

 

Oh please. Putting that series loss on the Draymond suspension might be the worst example of people just refusing to give Bron credit where it's due. His stat line in Game 5 without Draymond was almost identical to his stat line in Game 6 when Draymond came back. 41 points in both games. More rebounds in game 5 without Draymond, but more assists and better shooting percentages in game 6 WITH Draymond. He went for 41-8-11 on 59% from the field and 50% from 3 point land in game 6 with Draymond back.

Injuries affect things to a point where it's actually annoying. Warriors win in 2015 with injured Cavs. Kawhi gets his Raptors title against decimated Warriors. Kawhi injuries since. AD. Bron. Middleton, Jimmy, Ja this season. Just annoying.

Holding any finals loss, aside from Dirk's Mavs, against LeBron is just dumb. DWade was breaking down by the end of the Heatles. Bosh was almost a non factor (go look at the box scores). Kyrie hasn't done jack shit in his career without LeBron. Kevin Love almost couldn't see the floor because of his poor defense. AD is great when healthy, which is like, 20% of the time. And most of LeBron's Finals losses have come against all-time great teams, often with little to no support.

 

I hope they don’t let Green play fullback next game. That was crazy. Game was a blowout but they can’t let it get that bad.

 

Goes way beyond the stat box my dude. Talking momentum, mojo differences. These games aren’t played in a vacuum. The warriors were the better team that year. On injuries: curry hurt his knee in that series as well. It sucks but it’s a part of the game.
If lebron can take credit for all of the wins he can answer for the losses too. That’s how this works for me. What have any of the warriors ex players done after leaving? Iggy make any noise? Harrison Barnes? Mo Speights? Livingston? Part of being the star is elevating those around you and lebron wasn’t good enough to do so in the years he lost, simple as that.

edit to add: so by that logic Draymond shouldn’t have played the whole series because he didn’t affect lebron in 1 game?? He plays a huge part of their offense as well ya know? Have you heard of the death lineup they like to run in GS? It made all the difference in that series that he got chucked.

 

The better team rarely loses in a 7 game series. You're right, it is more than the stat box. LeBron absolutely dominated those 2 games, regardless of Draymond being on the floor, in the building, or in the same state. Draymond being there for Game 5 probably doesn't change the outcome of the series, and suggesting the contrary is just wishful thinking.

Tell me which Finals you feel LeBron had a legitimate shot at winning.

07 in Cleveland with no help against the Spurs dynasty?

2014 against the Spurs dynasty again, with Bosh averaging 14 and 5 and Wade averaging 15, 4 and 2? They scored a combined 22 points in Game 6 and a combined 24 in game 7.

2015 against the Warriors without Kevin Love or Kyrie?

2017 against the Warriors, who added an MVP to the team who had literally just set the record for single season wins the year before?

2018 against the same Warriors?

No. It's dumb to hold any of those against him. The only one that makes sense to hold against him is the Mavs, and he's won 4 titles since then. Sillyness.

I don't even understand the players you are asking about. Livingston? The dude averaged like, 5 ppg for the Warriors and started 15 games in 5 seasons. Mo Speights? Started 12 games in 3 seasons. What sort of noise are bench players supposed to make?

Harrison Barnes averaged 19 and 5 the year he left Golden State. He's basically been a 15+ point scorer on garbage teams ever since. Pretty much maintained his FG% and improved his 3 point shooting over time.

Iggy has always been known for defense. Who exactly are you claiming elevated his defense? Again, I don't think you're making a coherent point by pointing out these players.

But go back and look at that 07 Cavs roster, if you want to talk about LeBron's ability to elevate players. I question whether you actually watch basketball if you don't think he elevates his teammates. The point is that there isn't a player alive who could elevate his team to win the Finals in every year LeBron lost (except 2011).

Look, I'm not going to deny that Draymond positively impacts the game. But his defense clearly didn't affect LeBron from game 5 (without him) to game 6 (with him). You can point to offense, but I'm not sure the 4 more points they scored in game 6 really back up your claim. LeBron took over that series, and Kyrie played well enough for them to win. This idea that the Warriors were the better team is just people making shit up.

Pretty sure the death lineup wasn't born until KD joined the team. But okay.

 

Dawg the death lineup was long before KD. qUeStioNinG iF u EvEn WatCh bAskEtBall. Steph, Klay, Dray, Iggy, Barnes. That’s what started their whole run, what no one could defend.

Of course Lebron elevates those around him, never said he didn’t. Said he didn’t enough to win those series. I don’t have time to hash through his every finals demise, there’s too many and it takes more effort than I’m willing to give this discussion at the moment. 07 and Kyries injury sure they can be excused. The others are capital Ls. Just like anyone else who plays in the finals and loses. You get an L just like the rest of your team. It is what it is.

Thinking about it now though, it’s almost unfortunate in hindsight that he played in the East where his biggest opponent was the Pacers joke of Paul George, Hibbert/Stephenson which was always a charade. It just made his failures highlighted in the Finals rather than typical playoff losses. If he had just been in the West and made it a few times through there he’d have won the Finals every time he was able to get through the gauntlet that the West was, but instead he piled up Finals losses which looks worse in some ways even though the appearances are good.

think we’re just going to have to agree to disagree on the Draymond ejection series, that caused a huge shift to me in the series and breathed new life into the Cavs. Fine if you don’t see it that way.