COVID-19 (artist formerly known as Wuhan strain novel Corona virus)

This virus, specifically the delta variant requires a vaccinated/infected in the 90s, I believe.

At 57% fully vaccinated, just about everyone who isn't vaccinated would need to have been infected in order to hit that number.

And not everyone who is not vaccinated has immunity due to infection.

We would probably need another massive wave as bad as the last one to finally get everyone. Unless we started seeing reinfection, in which case then we'd need those past infected to get vaccinated, and the vaccinated to get boosted.

 

There have been somewhere around 50 million cases recorded in the US.

80% infected + immunized is still ~30 million short of the low end 90% goal for immunity.

That means we need 3/5s the full known case count for the entire COVID pandemic in order to hit that number.

 

I don't know how many times I'm going to have to say this for you to understand it, but they weren't talking about spreading it. That wasn't the focus of this part of the conversation. They weren't talking about it. Neither of them. Not Rogan, not Gupta.

Rogan is focused on the reasonableness of parents' concerns about vaccinating their children, based on potential downsides of vaccines vs. statistical chances of significant negative outcomes from COVID. He wanted Gupta to understand that his (Gupta's) lack of worry about getting COVID, due to being vaccinated, is similarly reasonable to parents' lack of worry about their kids getting COVID because statistically speaking, kids will be fine. Here's part of the discussion:

Rogan: "Your attitude about not being concerned because you have antibodies and you think you would get through it even if you have a breakthrough infection - that is the exact same attitude that a lot of young people have , where they don't want to get a shot because they're worried about the consequences (of the vaccine), even though they're incredibly small. But the report - they do have deaths, they do have injuries, they do have consequences. I know that you're vaccinating hundreds of millions of people in this country alone. You're gonna have a certain percentage of them that have an adverse reaction. But the same attitude you have, where you're not worried about catching it, they have that same attitude. Why is it okay for you and not okay for someone to have that attitude about their child?"

Gupta: I do think you have to draw a distinction between someone who has immunity and someone who doesn't.

Rogan: A child is going to get through it as if they have immunity, don't you think? Most likely?

Gupta: Well, I... I... first of all, they can get sick. Even if they don't die.

Rogan: And you can as well, right? But you're not worried.

Gupta: I... I... I have immunity. I do. I got a vaccine.

Rogan: Right. But breakthrough infections are real.

Gupta: They can happen, but despite this particular story - the person who died of it - in my age group they're not very common.... (bunch of additional unrelated information about working in a hospital)... I think it's a fair point.

That isn't even the entire exchange. It took Gupta 5 minutes of dancing around the question and playing dumb before he finally just conceded that it was a fair point.

Ultimately, Gupta pointed out the stopping the spread part. Rogan correctly pointed out that even the vaccinated can spread, though they agreed it was less likely.

But you're also acting as though there's no risk to getting the vaccine, and that's just not true.

 

Does it matter if we get to 95% vaccinated if the rest of the world is < 60% vaccinated? Couldn't variants develop in other parts of the world and then spread and cause problems here, regardless of how vaccinated we are?

 

If highly vaccine-evasive variants or even more highly contagious variants develop then it doesn’t help us … or at least help us as much. Those things aren’t inevitable so hard to say it doesn’t matter, period.

 

Isn't that one of the main concerns, though? That the longer this goes on, the more likely it is that we will see a highly vaccine-evasive variant? Feels like I remember someone (IP maybe?) saying that at some point.

And if that's something we are truly worried about, then having 95% of the US vaccinated doesn't necessarily protect us against it.

That's not to say people shouldn't get vaccinated. It just looks more and more like "Zero Covid" is an unrealistic goal, and that we are just going to have to learn to live with this thing, to some extent, for a while.

 

Based on these numbers:

Vaccine < Jesus

Just saying.

 

The point is perfectly valid. Go listen to the exchange. Gupta eventually acknowledges that it's a fair point (after 5 minutes of dancing). And yes, he absolutely pretended to not understand the point. Again, go listen to the exchange. If I understood Rogan's point after hearing it once, I'm extremely confident the neurosurgeon didn't need to hear it 5+ times over the course of 10 minutes to understand it.

But I don't know wtf you're even talking about through half of this post. I never suggested my brother wouldn't be fine after taking the vaccine. It was a concern my mother had, based on studies that have shown not insignificant chances of myocarditis in males of a certain age group. You were wrong to disagree with that study based on studies about myocarditis in people (men and women of all ages) in general getting the vaccine vs. getting Covid. Show me the study that says young males in that particular age group are more likely to get myocarditis from COVID than from the vaccine, and you will no longer be wrong. But you can't because it doesn't exist (unless something has changed).

 

you act like all risk is equal, and that isn't true.

 

tell him to come on by

 

Where do I act like that?

At one point, Rogan suggests that Gupta is likely MORE at risk of adverse effects from COVID than kids, even if he is vaccinated, and Gupta didn't even fully push back on him.

 

My point is that a risk that happen doesn’t mean it is inevitable - particularly with the ability to tune boosters.

 

Fair enough.

 

That doesn't make it so, he is a guest on a show and trying to bring an olive branch to a guy who has been wrong throughout this pandemic about drugs, vitamins, vaccines, etc. You follow the advice of Joe Rogan over Gupta. Got it. Say no more.

 

Again, not all numbers are "same." An evasive variant may be, let's say, 25% more contagious. That still means a fully vaccinated population would be better insulated against it getting established and spreading freely. You are treating all situations as binary.

 

You're just making shit up, post after post. I'm young and healthy but got vaccinated anyway. Is that what Joe Rogan advises?

If what Rogan said had been demonstrably wrong, Gupta would have disagreed. Gupta represents the network that claimed Joe Rogan was taking horse de-wormer to combat his Covid infection and whose hosts came across joyful upon learning Rogan had been infected. I'm supposed to trust those folks? Rogan may be an idiot, but at least he's not completely full of shit.

 

After the 6th wave and 480% of the country has caught covid, these people will continue to claim natural herd immunity is right around the corner. Not sure why some of you continue to engage with these people.

A large segment of the country is intentionally sabotaging our fight against the virus and then proudly proclaiming the plan doesn't work when they did their best to make it fail by actively going against it.

 

Immunity and spread go hand in hand in a pandemic. You can't talk about a vaccine without talking about reducing prevalence.

Choosing to willfully side step that discussion doesn't mean anything.

Gupta, in your quote, mentions immunity. Immunity is what limits spread. That's the undertone.

I'm not acting as if there is no risk. I'm not sure where that comes from, because I'm not talking about risk at all. I'm talking about immunity. And immunity is a collective, not an individual thing.

Risk, is an individual thing.

 

Hey mind reader, tell me more about how I am making shit up while you say Gupta "pretended" this and that, while hosts "came across as joyful" about Rogan's illness.

Reporting that ivermectin is a dewormer is accurate. Not just for horses, sure. I've posted as much. But it is an anti-parasitic and the manufacturer specifically says it is not for COVID.

If I am so full of shit, quit asking me questions so much.

 

But why take a one in a 5 million risk when the worst that could happen is a 5% chance of serious complications from COVID? I just have to not catch it or be among the 95%. Duh. Math, man. Math!